Co8 4.0.0 VS 0rion's complete fixes.

If the sword(s) can be corrected, then I'd say were on the right track making him a paladin. Fragarach is LG; The "Reward Sword" is supposed to be aligned with the person most helpful in helping Thrommel recover Fragarach...the module says Scather, which would most likely be NG so that any good character could wield it. For this game, I think making evil swords available would also be neat...But, the Prince wouldn't be doling them out.

 

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Here is a link to the source of the web article.
FRAGARACH & OTHER SWORDS OF ANSWERING -=- Info from gamebanshee.com

Note: This information was taken from TSR's original AD&D adventure, the Temple of Elemental Evil.

FRAGARACH

This hefty steel broadsword bears a mighty enchantment. It was originally fashioned for a demigod of elsewhen, and eventually passed into the WORLD OF GREYHAWKâ„¢ Setting. It served well for a short time, all too soon falling into the hands of the minions of Chaotic Evil. It has been in their grasp for a decade or more, resting in hiding in the Temple of Elemental Evil, guarded by the worst of elemental grues. Fragarach means "The Answerer."

The sword is of Chaotic Good alignment. Any Lawful creature trying to grasp it takes 1-6 points of damage and falls senseless for 1-10 rounds. A Neutral creature holding it takes only 1-3 points and swoons for 1-4 rounds. In evil hands, Fragarach has no "to hit" bonus whatsoever; in Chaotic Neutral hands, it will strike but one opponent per round. The sword functions perfectly only for a Chaotic Good user. In such hands, its + 4 bonus always operates, and it will strike as many opponents unerringly as have struck at its possessor. Fragarach always hits all such targets, the + 4 pertaining to additional damage only. Note, however, that The Answerer always strikes last in a melee round. Against evil opponents, the bonus doubles (to + 8) whenever a natural 20 is rolled for "to hit" determination.

The sword has a hilt of silver and gold wire, most cunningly wrought. Its guard and pommel are set with perfect emeralds (corundum)—7 gems, total value 65,000 gp. Its scabbard is likewise trimmed with precious metal and decorated with many gems of green and golden hue, worth another 35,000 gp.

OTHER SWORDS OF ANSWERING

When Fragarach first came to this world, it received immediate attention and quick renown; so much so, in fact, that six other swords like it were forged and enchanted. These are lesser weapons, of course, and their alignments vary. Each has a + 2 bonus (and cannot hit opponents struck only by + 3 or better weapons). On a natural "to hit" roll of 1, no bonus applies; on a natural 20, like their predecessor, the bonus is doubled (to + 4). These lesser swords are identified by the differing gems set in guard and pommel. They are reported to be amethyst, aquamarine, garnet, peridot, topaz, and tourmaline stones, with combined value of about 24,000 gp per weapon, 16,000 gp per scabbard. These weapons are named Rebutter, Scather, Replier, Retorter, Squelcher, and Back-Talker, in honor of Fragarach.

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Here is a link to more information I found.
FRAGARACH -=- Info from masterao.com

Ahha...I think I know the answer. Is what you're looking for the sword Fragarach, whose name means "The Answerer?" It's a 1E magic item from the old Temple of Elemental Evil module for Greyhawk.

The weapon was created for a demi-god of elsewhen. It eventually ended up in Greyhawk and fell into the hands of the chaotic evil priests of the Temple of Elemental Evil. It was a Chaotic Good weapon that hand a number of special abilities.

First, it would always strike last in a round - regardless of the dexterity of the wielder. That was because it would unerringly strike any and all opponents each round that had hit it's wielder. That's right - for each opponent that hit you, you automatically hit them back!

The sword had a +4 enhancement (usually applied only to damage since the hit roll against any opponent who'd already hit you is automatic. This +4 bonus to damage was doubled to +8 if a natural 20 was rolled against evil opponents.

Fragarach had six simular (but less powerful) swords that copied his enchantments. They were named Rebutter, Scather, Replier, Retorter, Squelcher, and Back-Talker.

As far as I can tell, there was no 3.0 version of the weapon in the "Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil" module. However, Fragarach does appear in the computer game version of TOEE, so I suspect it's 3.5 stats are posted on one of the walkthroughs for that game.

 

here's something interesting I found...

So can we make a CG paladin?

 

I like the basic statement from Steve Moret, "Prince Thrommel was a Paladin Lord... not a Paladin. Fragarach is clearly chaotic".

[EDIT] This would mean Prince Thrommel had a court of Paladins guided by his leadership and he could be Chaotic Good, himself, of which is not too much dissimilar from the concept of King Arthur's Court. Gary Gygax, apparently, never finished his concept of a Chaotic Good Paladin with a Celtic slant or variation from the Lawful Good Paladin.

 

Well I always thought that he was a paladin - I've got to try it and see if he can have paladin levels and be CG, if it works it could be interesting.
anyway in real life you can change you're alignment, I might just go on a killing spree... :twitch:

 

Answerer
Back-talker
Concluder
Last-quip
Rebutter
Replier
Retorter
Scather
Squelcher

There were originally nine swords, one for each alignment, patterned after Fragarach. The answer for "Chaotic Good" paladins is the Cavalier character class, of which the Paladin was made merely a Lawful Good variant of and subordinate to the new rules as stated in the Unearthed Arcana. Cavaliers could be of any alignment, and had many skills, including 3 weapons of choice. Paladins got all of the above benefits, and could lay on hands, turn undead, detect evil, etc. No Paladin would take orders from a Chaotic master; they couldn't even associate with them for very long. The argument that he was Chaotic Good is waaay out there. I've got the skinny on Mannanan Mac Lir (CN Celtic god of the Sea), too if you want it; his sword killed on every hit unless the target made a save, and even then does 3-30 damage...it was known as Retaliator. I think the Gygax / Cain e-mails were a short answer for questions that either needed huge explanations, or very short ones. The original ToEE was played by their group of players long before T1-4 was published in 1985; at or around the same time as the UA was being worked on. And Mr. Gygax did "get around to it" with the new material found in the Unearthed Arcana. Mr. Cain's take on it is just that...his take; an opinion based on a quick answer. Suffice it to say that by the time this stuff got into print there were knightly characters of each alignment, and swords to go with them. Some of these guys could even lay on hands, detect evil, and turn undead. As for the blades themselves, simply because a sword returns blows unerringly doesn't make it chaotic. It may in fact be a lawful property. It's the whole alignment argument embodied in swords...and no one wins those kinds of debates.

Ponder this, and do as you will....my vote is to fix it as best suits the game. Thrommel is a Paladin; his sword is Lawful Good; and Scather the NG sword is the reward for re-uniting Thrommel with his unique blade. Thus, any good character get the benfits of wielding it.

All of this is, of course, if it doesn't take an incredible effort to make right.

Side note: Arthur was a Paladin, Level 14. Excalibur, a LG Sword of Sharpness, +5. The Good and Lawful King ruled his court, not vice versa. There were knights of varying alignments a plenty, including a few evil ones...Mordred and some of his Orkney cousins being most notable.

 

I don't think it makes much difference what Prince Thrommel is, unless he is going to stay in the game. I took him to level 4 once, buffed-up with masterwork armor and shield crafted+3 and he killed Iuz. I don't know what the AI for that episode was, but Iuz kept running from him. Weird. I think the game intention of rescue and head for the nearest exit and wait for the Scather reward is the way to go. There is a balance problem here.

 

how about someone creating all the weapons and the group get the sword based on the partys alignment.

 

Are there other effects that could be added to swords that would be as dangerous in other ways then? If yes, then the other swords could have different powers instead of the Frag/Scather powers.

One question while i am here, Why is Scather called a Bastard Sword in the description, but appears to need the Greatsword feats to get better?(and cannot wield one handed).

 

whoops forgot about that.

 

Could some one that knows how edit fragarach to change chaotic to lawful in the hard code?

 

As to the question of a Chaotic Good Paladin, yes, there are rules for them now in Unearthed Arcana. I had thought I included them in my discussion here. If not, then I goofed. They are called Paladins of Freedom, whereas the LG Paladin is called a Paladin of Honour (should really be Paladin of Justic, but thats just me). BTW, Paladin is a term meaning Pallatine Companion, so the Knights of the Round Table were Paladins in the early sense, though the term is more properly applied to Roland, Turpin and the rest of Charlemagne's Paladins.

Anyway, I'll have to check out this new mod, as I've come across some serious bugs in Livonya's mod recently (Rannos and Gremag both being able to flee combat after one was Charmed and the other Held, which is loopy).

If new classes can be made, which I'm hoping so, those listed in my previous thread would be my suggestions as all but the Noble are considered core classes now.