Can I fix bugs only with these mods?

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by The Walkin' Dude, Jun 14, 2007.

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  1. The Walkin' Dude

    The Walkin' Dude Member

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    I havent yet played ToEE properly and before trying out the excellent content mods I would like to go trough the game in the "pure" form without anything added by the fanbase. So, is it possible somehow to get the bug fixes only? Ive searched quite a bit but it seems that everything comes with costum content. Maybe its somehow possible to install only the bug fixes from the downloaded files while ignoring everything else?

    Thanks in advance.
     
    The Walkin' Dude, Jun 14, 2007
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  2. krunch

    krunch moving on in life

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    You can download and install the Atari Patch 2. That's all of it for bug fixes until you install the Co8 5.0.0 MOD with new and updated content along with new and more bug fixes.
    * And, before you ask, no, it is not possible to make a separate bug fixes only installer package distinct from all of the new and updated Co8 content to include dialogue, etc.
    ** We strongly recommend you do NOT download and do NOT install the Atari Patch 3.

    -> original ToEE links
    * Look for this link 'download from Atari the ToEE patch1 and ToEE patch2'
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2007
    krunch, Jun 14, 2007
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  3. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    You could try the Co8 3.0.4 mod pack, that doesn't have anywhere as much new content in it as the current version does, but then again it doesn't have anywhere near as many bug fixes in it either.
     
    Allyx, Jun 14, 2007
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  4. wizgeorge

    wizgeorge Prophet of Wizardy

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    3.0.4 actually plays okay and has master work items. It takes awhile to build up enough xp and gp to use them. With humble_npc and maxhp, it plays fairly well. Not so many CTD's either.
     
    wizgeorge, Jun 15, 2007
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  5. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    You can download the Toffee (frontend) version of 3.0.4 from this thread after you have installed 5.0.0, then you'll have the option to select it from the modules window in the frontend, and won't have to worry about re-installing when you want to try the newest mod pack.
     
    Allyx, Jun 15, 2007
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  6. Zebedee

    Zebedee Veteran Member Veteran

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    Hi Walkin' Dude,

    I'm afraid the answer here is the same as I gave you over on the codex :transform

    The best you really can do is to either struggle through with the official v2 patch (and work-around the looting bug) or attempt to use the official v3 patch (which fixes the Direct X induced looting bug but which can cause much strangeness on some systems) or to minimise the options in the frontend of Co8.

    Some custom content is inevitable if you use Co8 mods and bugfixes - sometimes for no other reason than Troika didn't really implement things properly due to the time constraints of releasing the game. So things like monster AI were set generically for all monsters which meant spell casters acted like melee monsters etc. mean that technically, the change results in custom content. Many other issues like that exist.

    Personally, I'd struggle through with the official v2 patch (triggering melee combat to loot as a workaround to the Direct X issue) and then install Co8. I think you'll fully appreciate the difference and why certain things were done as they have been done then.

    All the best,

    Zeb (mefi on the codex)
     
    Zebedee, Jun 15, 2007
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  7. Agetian

    Agetian Attorney General Administrator

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    Heh, I just looked at the RPG Codex and found out that the original question had a lot more disrespect to it than the one posted at the Co8:

    You know, you're some 100th user asking about this. This has been asked about many times before, and answered many times before too. First of all, if you find our fan content, as you say, 'weird' without even looking at it, it kind of makes me wonder how you judged it to be weird and what reason you have to sound as discrediting as you do (above, in your Codex post). Second, answering (yet again) your question about why we can't separate our mod into two - we can't do it because a lot of the bug fixes are tightly intertwined with the new content, and removing one will mean removing the other. Hope that makes sense to you. And third, we are not 'forcing' anyone to play anything on this board - if you don't like our mod for any reason, just don't play it. How can we possibly force you to play it? ;) You can always play the official Atari release with or even without the official patches (which *are* indeed very buggy, I mean both the game and the official patches, but that's not our bad - that's how the game was released and officially patched, you know) - and you'll know that you're not playing any weird fan content like ours.

    And just for the reference, here's one more time it popped up earlier on, maybe reading it will be helpful: http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4874&highlight=separate ;)

    - Agetian
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2007
    Agetian, Jun 15, 2007
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  8. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Hmm, to further expound upon this, a romp through the treacherous fields of the Codex yields some interesting tidbits. Between all the backbiting and self-aggrandized pontificating, we find these ill-informed musings (and not a one from Volourn!):

    :scratchhe Meh, facile jack-offery from our old Atari friend. ;)

    - this from the guy who doesn't want the added content. Which makes the extra levels viable. Which make the added content viable. :eek:_O:

    :twitch:

    For the life of me I'll never understand why people feel the need to shit out comments like these when it should be obvious even to themselves that they are just plain uninformed . . . although I guess the answer can be found right there in the question. :shame:
     
    Gaear, Jun 15, 2007
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  9. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    While it is true that when Livonya released her mod, it was so groundbreaking, in design and complexity that we were astonished by it, and confounded as to how she achieved it all, and yes I'll admit (as a small time modder at that time) I didn't have a clue as to how she did it, that certainly isn't the case anymore.

    As a matter of fact, while compiling the 5.0.0 CMF's with Spellslingers .dll fixes we modders (namely Spellslinger and CtB) actully found better ways to do the Gnoll attacked caravan encounter, and fixed the entangle breakfree that Livoya finally admitted was still eluding her, I myself recently corrected a Livonya mistake that had been preventing PC's from confronting Rannos and Gremag about the assassination attempt against them, and Sitra (whatever his name was - sorry can't remember the last bit) provided a more elegant code for the R&G encounter than Livonya did that checks to see if either has simply been knocked out instead of killed outright. And CtB has added reattachable shop inventories (as Livonya had boasted she had done in her unpublished v2.0 mod).

    I believe we now have surpassed the "Great Livonya" in modding capability. :p

    As for the level cap, my current group is about done with the fire node, just some Efreeti and the Balor left to do, I have litterally left no survivors (apart from the townsfolk of Hommlet and Nulb) and have NOT done the moathouse respawn, Verbobonc OR Hickory Branch on this run though, I currently have a group of 5 (no NPC's) which consists of...

    Bard (face woman) level 14
    Ranger level 13
    Rogue level 14
    Cleric level 12
    Wizard level 12

    While I admit yes I have done all other new content (Desperate Housewives, the Target of Revenge encounter and the Orc Prespawn) I doubt those mods would account for that much extra XP that it would boost me so far above level the old level cap of 10 levels.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2007
    Allyx, Jun 15, 2007
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  10. Lord_Spike

    Lord_Spike Senior Member Veteran

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    Walkin' Dude...

    What has been done is simply to "flesh out" the original release as if it were the 1985 module. Some things needed to be fixed, obviouly, but other things were added in the spirit of Old School PnP DnD. If you've ever read anything published by Mr. Gygax, then you know this type of "expanding on things" is encouraged to make the whole experience come to life. Some things were simply lacking the little bit of detail that would have made a decent product into a great one; that's all we're trying to do here. I submit to you that if you want the experience of playing it one way - then the other - you simply play with Atari patch 2 until you're sick of it. Then give the Co8 version a try. Then judge things. At least you've had the nuts to come here & see for yourself. Those others will never know the truth as long as they believe all the BS that is dribbling from their oral sphincters.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2007
    Lord_Spike, Jun 16, 2007
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  11. wizgeorge

    wizgeorge Prophet of Wizardy

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    I bought the game in Nov,04 and joined co8 in Feb,05. I was on the verge of giving it up, until 3.0.4 and humble_npc came along, and over 2 years later I'm still here and playing. Yes there are bugs, but nothing like it use to be. Once you get a good feel for the game, there are lots of downloads to add on. Just play and be your own judge.
     
    wizgeorge, Jun 16, 2007
    #11
  12. Agetian

    Agetian Attorney General Administrator

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    @ Gaear: Yeah, I see. Makes absolutely no sense to me either. I can understand that some people may be lazy enough to try out our mods (even <sorry for a little self-ad ;)> with the front-end allowing them to switch between the genuine ToEE+Patch 2 and any version of the Co8 mod they may want), but I don't understand why these people say shit about us and/or about our mods without even seeing the damn thing first!

    - Agetian
     
    Agetian, Jun 16, 2007
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  13. Zebedee

    Zebedee Veteran Member Veteran

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    I can understand where Walkin' Dude is coming from - if you aren't aware of why changes had to be made to content as part of bug-fixing then it might seem like the Co8 mods have taken Troika's original design and done lots of strange things to it (especially if they aren't aware that certain content changes are actually totally optional via the Front-end).

    Some things are arbitrary (eg Livonya's lock difficulties) but they were done to fix a known problem (eg many locks being granted the minimum difficulty to open).

    As I commented above, the best thing for people who feel the way Walkin Dude does is to play the game with the official patch/es and then install Co8. Many of the reasons behind the changes will then be very apparant.

    Don't get too upset guys when people ask this sort of question - I don't think it's to s**t over the efforts of the modders but because they don't understand quite how the content changes and bug fixes are (and have to be) directly linked.
     
    Zebedee, Jun 16, 2007
    #13
  14. wizgeorge

    wizgeorge Prophet of Wizardy

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    ToEE got a bad rep for all the bugs and a lot of "other" sites still carry a negative opinion of the game. Some people, like me, never understood the connection between bug fixing and changed content. With all the downloads available you can do just about anything. Plus, with the console, ProtoEd and some .dlg editing you can make your own game your way. But, to bad-mouth the modders who make this all possible is senseless.
     
    wizgeorge, Jun 16, 2007
    #14
  15. The Badger

    The Badger Grumpy Dwarf

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    Re: A misunderstanding perhaps?

    a viewpoint from an outside spectator;

    I believe it may have been a misunderstanding as referenced earlier-

    i dont think many understand what is atari's patches vis-a-vis CO8 patches...

    look at his comments that way.

    I can tell you myself i ended up on this site bECAUSE i did a google search for PATCHES.

    quite possibly if i hadn't been involved in another mod site; i wouldn't have known what i waslooking at or that atari's patches are available SEPERATELY -

    i imagine that is why he thought he 'had' to play the mod to get the patch. and why the other fellow didnt understand the higher levels could adventure further thansk to the same mod's.

    myself; I continue my patch3 game while my second computer has an install that is being 'upgraded' to Co8's mods...

    in closing; I ask a little patience for those who would rather ask than try to sift thru old posts - not a knock on your organization; just a fact of life..

    we don't all have a GAEAR to sort through the treacherous Codexes after all :)
     
    The Badger, Jun 17, 2007
    #15
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