Vaevictis666, Nomad_Wanderer, and Kobayashi - Would the 3 of you please contact me in private email at mynex @ codemonkeypublishing.com. I've sent an email to Dhoom and Brokenblade already. I have something I wish to discuss with the 5 of you regarding doing all this mod'ing. *grumble* I hate when I forget things... *sigh* Exitium would you as well please...
Mynex just sent me a note regarding not immediately "machine Gunning" our work out peicemeal to the community.. But rather try to follow Software development Best Practices... and release a (for the most part) real patch (This means: -bug tracking -closed Beta test/QA to confirm Bug resolution -etc, etc) I like this idea, as a more polished release only more so demonstrates our coolness, (and Troika's for making a moddable game), but also helps the community out, as they don't have to install umpteen patches that might collide/be incompatible with each other. A couple of comments/conditions I mentioned revolved around timing.. I'm all for doing the above, as long as it doesn't take a long time.... The community is currently left with (IMO) a not so great title, and unless we/Troika/others start tipping the direction towards greatness soon, there won't be much of a community left when something on the slowTrack eventually reaches them. I didn't ask Mynex about replying to this openly, but in my opinion we're in this together, and I want EVERYONE to be "in the know", and to hear what the rest of "us" have to say about it.
Hm .. i liked the brainstorming in the forum and about everybody sharing his newest findings helping others to find even more ... i may be wrong, but if you stop "machine gunning" you would also slow down the progression in general ... and dont get me weong and without offending someone or such, but: it sounds also a bit "elite'ish" ...
fwiw i think what you're doing is great so... i wouldnt want you to stop now but rather nail the killer bugs first. then continue for *improvements* in private i agree with mynex that troika should be a little more forthcoming with info (i dont think atari could prevent that) however i doubt that they're anywhere near a computer
Na na na.. you got it all wrong WinterMuteX... I'm not looking for shutting down the 'machine gunning'... I'm all for that... What I'm talking about is a multi forked 'attack' to the problems of the game... and licensing issues.... 1) Keep 'machine gunning' that helps to identify issues and find resolutions... this is a _GOOD_ thing... Release, test, find more, release, test, find more... wash, rinse, repeat. 2) Form a group of dedicated mod'ers to 'refine' any mods... I'm not just talking about bugs.. those need to be addressed 1st obviously, and hopefully Troika and Atari will get that bit straightened out quickly... Once the bugs are fixed and real hard core moding starts, to avoid issues, crashes, etc, this group would be responsible for making sure it worked... for 'Official' mods... this doesn't preclude fan mods out the wazoo, and hopefully there will be (much like daggerfall - another CRPG I love the hell out of)... 3) The 'Official' bit - a bit of background... My company (see sig line) picked up the rights to fix another product that was broken... e-Tools... it is a character and monster generator for D&D... the official one... means my company is a liscensee of WotC's directly... we have the rights to handle their Intellectual Property in the character generator... Since we have those rights, to manipulate their data, and we're talking data (what is a mod anyways? It's a collection of data changes. ;p), we can use our current licensee status to become an 'official' mod haven for people... We already have the Q&A procedures in place for what we do now.. adding a mod here and there is not a problem... 4) Before anyone starts yelling about 'selling out'... no the 'official' mods would NOT be for sale... it'd still all be fan driven... just 'certified' by Wizards as good to go for use in ToEE... I'd like to see what Troika and Atari have to say about it... even if their problems are 'Give us more money! No we won't' in nature... perhaps if phrased the correct way, they'll both embrace the 'Doesn't cost us anything official mod site' thought process... Is this going to kill 'free fan based mods'... nope... Not every mod will make WotC's grade, I can promise you that... but look at Daggerfall... it has several official fan sites and has included some of the better, more stable, fully fleshed out mods into official releases from their own website!
Mynex brings up some valid points. Think of this situation. You have mod A and mod B, and both of these mods touch the same file. You have three options at handling this collision: 1 - release a mod C that contains both of these mods, 2 - make the mods mutually exclussive (you can only have one or the other) 3 - come up with some system that allows you to "check" which mods you want and have them not step on each other. I think there's going to be a lot of mods, and most people won't want ALL of them (mods that make rules stricter, etc.). I think it's worth investigating a mod installation mechanism that allows users to pick and chose which mods they want. This mechanism could use diffs somehow, or it could add some sort of Python script hooks into existing code. In any event, anticipate the problems you'll soon have on your hands .
Indeed. Without some sort of MOD manger perse, you might as welcome yourself to the wonderful world of NWN. However, without everyone knowing the exact data delivery system they made, this may already be solved. That is to say, the ToEE1-3 files and tig file are most likely the full base set of rules/data. Inside the modules folder each new .dat most likely overrides anything in the other files. So, this could be a waste of cycles to start worring about maintaining a mod release/delivery system. Besides, it also would put a committee in front of any mods I want to make. No thanks there. Also, MyNex and/or anyone else out there: could you please bring your ideas to everyone here, and not behind a PM. I hate politcs and hush-hush. I was also involved in the start of breaking the dat format, and I am still working on a viewer/extractor, but not feeling to post a message every five seconds or so has not left a lasting impression. Not that I care about impressions, I don't. But I did want to be part of a modding "community" and not another "team" project mentality. Thanks.
I agree. CMP is a bad way to go for this. They haven't even got the 3.0 data sets out for eTools and PCGen (How long has 3.5 been out now?). Also, going official will stifle some modding. It was probably Hasbro/WotC in the first place that required removal of all the "evil" bits. What are the chances they will hand-wave that decision and put their stamp of approval on it the second time around?
I am thinking I shoul dbe coding less, posting less, and playing more. Halfway done with an Ironman and have been steadily whipping ass, till, well, the other day when all this hacking started lol
When I use the word mod, I mean modification (not modification to the point that it's a new module). Just to make sure we're on the same page... If two mods want to edit the same file though in the structure, the file will be overwritten when the second mod is installed. Unless mods are completely grouped with the file they edit, they will step on each other...unless I'm missing something?
