Bardly Advice

I don't usually roll with a bard, but I'm in need of something different for a face man. I'm a little tired of using a rogue for this.

So, what's a good way to build a bard? I'm imagining a long bow type, so should I pick an elf? Cross class won't be a possibility then. Either that or I go with a human and use a short bow or something...

Any advice would be great!

Especially for feats. Skills are going to have to be a selection from the social butterfly menu.

My other chars are: melee cleric type (longsword shield), str-based rogue/fighter hybrid (polearm) and a wizard. I would love to blind, daze, sleep, haze, charm or otherwise baffle my foes. Is this a better task for the bard or for the wizard?

Are there any other good options for a faceman? I was thinking of a sorcerer with lots of cross-class skills, but that seems difficult... BTW: I would like to get woo the damsel in homlett, if only for her dowry

 

I too am interested in this build, for I have NEVER built what I would call a successful bard.

Me, I want a scald when you say bard.

Sure hope some of the build guru's chime in.

 

Paladins are decent facemen, but they come with some restrictions on what you can do quest-wise.

 

most of the time my bard is a human. Somewhere along the line he gets 1 lvl of rogue, and then he switches to a shortbow for his main weapon. Offcourse, most feats go into this (point blank shot, precise shot,...) You will however find yourself casting not a lot during battles, unless in dire need. use the bard as a buffbitch before battle, and use the bard as a healer after battle, and you're doing it right. during battle, a bard has to sing and pepper the enemy with arrows.

 

Why do people want their bards to fight? They are booster/controllers par excellance.

I would say human bard. Max out charisma. You need 18cha to start.....then Int,Dex, Constitution, Wis and Str in that order.

Take spell focus enchantment and greater spell focus enchantment as initial feats. Grab Tasha's Uncontrollable Hideous Laughter as 1st level spell. {Charm person,Cure light wounds,Identify}
Level 3: Craft wondrous item
Select: Eagles splendour and Rage at 4th level [Prepare best possible cloak of charisma]
Select : Mirror Image at level 5
Level 6: Spell Penetration
Select: Heroism, Deep slumber,Charm monster at level 7
Select Haste at level 8
Level 9: Greater Spell Penetration
Select: Displacement, Dominate person and Hold Monster at Level 10. You should have Cha 26 (18+6+2) by now you get 2 bonus dominate persons a day at +10 on the normal save DC.

You should be able to swap out Eagles Splendour at Level 11 by which time you should have worn your cloak +6 into ribbons.

 

Wow, very nice build Pygmy, I like it! I'll have to try this one out

 

@Daryk: I tried a paladin once and I was disappointed. I couldn't use subtlety anywhere (lawful good shouldn't mean lawful stupid, but sometimes it does ).

 

Bards are my favorite character to build. i like to make a skald type warrior bard with Barb/ Bard levels, maybe Rogue 3/ Barb 3/ Bard 14 as a half-elf or human so as to not get hit with any leveling issues. equip with sword and board, or a longspear. Keep the armor light with enchanted Mithril chain, or elven chain, padded armor, leather armor or maybe even just magical tattoos. Specializing in crossbows and even getting the exotic feat for the Iolo's Joy can be worth it. The 'quickdraw' feat if you can spare it can be very useful in giving your bard the ability to change equipment on the fly.

This includes switching out a wand, or a magical instrument, as well as weapons in combat.

If you prioritize as a spellcaster, definitely getting the feats dealing with Conjuration and 'Augment Summoning' are very helpful, or if going the "enchanter" route selecting those feats instead.

My bard has all the neat little summoning items - the Fungus Figurine, Bag of Tricks, Lamia statue. The dude can Rage, or Sing, or cast or fight, or steal, disarm traps, sneak ... Jack of all Trades, master of None.



Also, since the TOEE engine does not seem to discern bard levels as stringently as the rules state, it seems you can get away with less levels in Bard, as long as you always MAX out your skill upgrades in Performance at every opportunity, and have an excellent Charisma score. By this i mean your Bard could essentially 'minor' in his bardic skills, and still excel in all the bardic disciplines except the spellcasting. For example - an 'extreme' build i have experimented on with 4 different classes, leveled equally - Rogue 4/ Barb 4/ Bard 4/ Ranger 4 still has all of his songs that a 10th level bard would have, despite the rules stating Bardic levels required. The game goes by the performance skill stat to assign competence in the songs the bard knows. This leads to an oddly versatile character, that has an assortment of skills - again the Jack of All Trades, Master of None.

a more militant bard Fighter 4/ Barb 4/ Bard 12 would probably have a decent selection of feats, be able to stand on the frontline as the party face, but be a little less nimble. i have not tried that.

 

@J'allan UlDragos: neat advice, I like it! I was wondering if any other character could benefit from cross-class "performance" skill. Just wondering...

I considered 2 things: a Orc bard ( -2 CHA ) which could take barb levels at any amount without xp penalty, or a Gnome bard ( -2 STR ) which could also take any number of barb levels.

In the end human seems well suited with no penalties to STR or CHA and the extra bonus feat. Even though humans are boring

 

Can someone remind me; are bards restricted from casting certain types of spell, like fireball and other artillery-class spells ?

And do they take no penalty from armor?

 

No Fireballs but they gain many of the significant enchantment spells at approximately the same experience level as a wizard. Tasha's Uncontrollable Hideous Laughter is a 1st level bard spell - spell focus and greater spell focus enchantment should have Lareth on the ground (=dead) as soon as he appears..... Works on Lugbash too!

 

Bards can cast in light armor, the elven armors you find work great for them. Fireball isn't on their spell list, Sound Burst is one of their few area effect damage spells. But as arcane casters, they can use wizard scrolls, wands, and staffs just like wizards can, so have your wizard scribe a couple of fireball scrolls when he is able, then later on buy the bard a wand of fireballs or have him carry a Staff of Fire for some extra artillery. By the way, a rogue with a good UMD skill can easy use a wand of fireballs.

 

@Pygmy: I was playing around with building a bard and was wondering: what about the combat casting feat? Do bard get interrupted easily? I was thinking about those nasty web spells.

I was also thinking of having my wizard do all the crafting. This frees up a feat.

Lastly, I do realize that the bard levels seem to have diminishing returns around 16 or earlier. A mix-in class does seem like a good idea. I was thinking of Fighter for that extra "umpf" or maybe a ranger to quickly progress with bow feats.

 

I only find spell interruption a problem in the brigands tower and would leave that until bard had purple elven chainmail and elven shield [AC19+] that makes the bard a preferable target to your wizard.

Does your wizard really want to choose Eagles Splendour as a leveling up spell or wait to Verbobonc to buy it (I don't even recall if you can). You are going to be waiting a long time to complete quests such as the masterwork repeating crossbow quest with 1 bard level in the first 5 and no Eagles Splendour.

I don't deny the bards relative weakness beyond 16th level (still getting an extra 6th level spell though per level) but I would suggest that you wait until then to address it rather than nerf the bard in his strongest range (Levels 2-10)

Ultimately the real joy of ToEE is that its filled with so many difficult decisions and sacrificing all else to make the bard the best controller he/she can be at low levels is mine......

 

Excellent advice! I could tell that I would want a pure bard for those 16 or so levels and then add something else later. At one time I had forgotten to boost concentration and ran into a few problems, but this was an over sight.

I'm really looking forward to the bard and your notes on how to do it are perfect.

What other crafting duties do you think he can take on? I'm not sure if I dare give him too many non-enchantment related spells, but if he could safely take bulls strength at some point then he and the wizard could share in making everyone a str belt