Back after a break

Well I got bored with WoW (took me a year to figure out it's just a grind), and EVE is starting to get boring, too (worked up to a battleship and have been doing level 4 missions, but not so exciting anymore, not much left to really work towards), so I figured I'd load up my favorite turn-based RPG combat simulator and give it another go with the Co8 4.0 pack.

And this time through, I have to say - the encounters in the Moathouse are WAY too hard. The ogre has 60 plus hitpoints? 8 gnolls in one room, some of them barbarian classed? I don't know what level these encounters were designed for, but if this was a P&P game I think the players would have stuffed me behind the sofa. I guess I got so used to them being hard from before that I just accepted it - but with my current experimental party, I've had to reload so many times (even with max hp per die selected), it really got me questioning.

Anyway, I'm learning the tricks all over again (block the evil masses off from the soft characters and keep the tanks healed). Maybe if I can make it all the way through the moathouse, I'll be in better shape.

I also see a Keep on the Borderlands is in the works. It would be nice to relive that one

Glad Co8's work is still alive and well

 

You just can't plunge straight into the Moathouse anymore is all. Any DM would gauge the parties ability and make sure they were advanced enough to survive the Moathouse before letting them go there. I suppose we could do that as well, but then there wouldn't be the surprise. Just a lot of complaints about how you couldn't go straight to the Moathouse without completing other quests first.

 

Yeah, I understand the moathouse isn't for 1st level parties anymore. I looked in the old paper dungeon, and there are indeed 9 gnolls there. But even at 2nd level I was having trouble with what I thought were easier encounters. Then again, I'm only playing with 4 characters this time (a paladin, War/Good cleric, full rogue and gnome evokist wizard), so this combo has fewer healing spells and less arcane flexibility than the nature party I used before (ranger, barbarian/fighter, druid, sorcerer, bard). It's just frustrating that it seems like I need a particular kind of party build to do well. But like I said before, I'm learning the tricks again. So much happens in a round that I need to plan ahead a little better and make sure every member can contribute something every round to get the most out of them. It's easy to tweak placements in pen and paper - I keep getting surrounded or cut off playing the game, though.

ShiningTed, thanks for the invite into the KotB work, but I can't promise to be able to devote any real time to it yet. If I develop an interest in helping out, I'll let you know.

By the way, when I first tried the Co8 4.0 pack when it came out, I set up a half-orc character, and when the game finally started, he was using the hill giant model! Did this happen to anyone else?

 

Nice touch with the summoned spiders while I was fighting Lareth! The black widows in the hallway scared the crap out of me, too, wasn't expecting that

However, after Lareth's sound burst, two of the spiders started attacking each other.

 

Well, I've made it to the templ and my four characters are level 5. Having only 4 characters moves them along in levels pretty quick. However, when I came upon the ogre chief/gnoll/hobgoblin/goblin guard room, I kept having problems with that stupid Ogre Chief hitting one of my softies for a one-hit Power Attack kill.

Taking a closer look, he has a +5 Class adjustment to his attack, so that means he's a 5th level barbarian, making him a CR 8. Cripes, no wonder he's hard. With everything else in the room, it's probably an EL 9 or 10.

This is another example of some of the encounters just being too dang hard. Would the game have been boring if the encounters were planned a little better for the expected level of the characters at that point?

 

He's playing 4.0.0. We fixed it for 5.0.0.

 

That's ok I won't mess around with the current install. If I run into something that causes trouble, I might try to get 4.0.1 working. I'm used to the original bugs from the game, so no big deal - and it's interesting to see all the little things that were added - I'm scared of every chest I walk up to now!

 

Remember that in 1st ed AD&D the gnolls were not as nasty as they are in 3rd ed D&D! Encounters used to be with, say 7 orcs or whatever, and they weren't that difficult for a 1st level party. In the new rules a lot of monsters got a power boost (for example strength bonus on damage rather than a simple die roll).

Also, in the computer game, a lot of the humanoids get better armour than the standard monster manual versions. Check out the bugbears (definitely) and the gnolls too (I think) AC in the die rolls log. Often they show things like "natural armour+8" :help: and even though I think that is to include armour in this game, that makes it better kit than your average hairy goblin gets! (Monster manual bugbear AC=17, made up of nat armour +3, dex +1, leather armour +2, shield +1, whereas ToEE bugbears are quite a bit more than this)

 

At least an EL 10, I would say-numbers make a huge difference in 3rd ed. (Although the EL needs to be taken with a pinch of salt on account of the fact that party size in the computer game is larger than the default 4 PCs assumed by the EL mechanic). These high ELs are quite normal for the computer game, though. Mainly as its based on a 1st ed balanced adventure but also you could argue that when you can go back to a saved game it needs to be harder (though I personally prefer not to rewind and reload). However, I beat them easily this time around with battlefield control spells needing reflex saves. Entangle or web the buggers, then either shoot them/spell them to death and/or send in reach weapon wielders with freedom of movement rings. You can even stand at the edge of the spells and stab them from there if you don't have the rings, whilst your mates pincushion the others. The ogre chief never got near me this time around.

If you want another major high EL room, look at the fire temple with the salamanders. 2 Noble salamanders are EL 12 on their own (4 fireballs and you better either have fire resistance or be WELL spread out) and then add in their 8 or so flamebrothers!!! The only saving grace is they don't have ALL the spell like abilities. They toasted me the first time when I was unprepared. The only survivors were the evading rogue and a fighter who was so close he was outside the fireball blast radius. However, the noble salamanders then finished these two off handily enough:sadblinky . A reload/rewind and assume a dream warning from the cleric's god to prepare energy protection spells and it was a different story, with hardly any wounds at all!

 

Ted, Pygon is playing 4.0.0. It is not in beta, and hasn't had the monsters redone since Liv was here. You need to lay off the drugs, man. Your short term memory is shot.