Well. For whatever reason my perfectly good install of the patches was running fine, and up to killing everyone except Zuggmoty it was great. It crashed and I lost all of it.... everything. I am reinstalling, and I have 4.0.0 and the frontend, but when I run it I do not get the kids. Bad sign. I also have the problem with the Caravan, and I think this is related. Could someone please help as to why I am installing the patches but they do not seem to work. I am not doing anything wrong with the last try, I have the Atari patches, but I does not want to go for me. I have read that on the initialization of the game you should get the kids for proper assurance of the patches working, but I have yet to do so. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks. I can't play my evil party until this is fixed, so don't be biased I am trying to be evil.