32 point buy?

Would it be possible to change the point buy system to a 32 point buy?

 

You could use the all 18s cheat to make the points buy whatever you want.

 

If I were to change it, I would drop it to a 15 point buy.

In addition to re-rolling and the invisible cheat, you can also use the console to set your scores to whatever you want.

http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1676

 

Just out of curiosity, why 15 points? Just wondering.

I used 25 point buy the first few times I finished the game. The Elves in the Temple party uses a 50 point buy.

 

I'm an old-schooler. [voice= old & grumpy] "When I was your age, we only had 3d6 chargen, and we LIKED it!" [/voice] (3d6 averages 63 points, the same as a 15 point buy (48 + 15 = 63).)

From my many years of playing both D&D and crpgs, I've come to a different way of looking at character creation.

1) For whatever reason, gamers feel there are "lucky" dice, and some gamers do indeed seem to have better than average rolls than others. I don't think an "unlucky" gamer should have to use a low scoring PC while Mr. Dice has a guy with 90+ in stats. This leads to problems with both characters and players. This is why I favor a set pool of points over dice, so that everyone starts on the same foot.

2) By using a pool of points, players can set their scores to exactly what they want, and not be stuck with numbers that may not exactly reflect the character they envision.

3) I have never liked that some 15 year old pig farmer can start off with an 18 Int like Einstein or an 18 Str like Stallone. I find that completely implausible. The popular 4d6 method easily allows for high stats, and possibly several 18s. Other mehods yield even higher scores. I think all of this plays into a high-stat, high-reward slippery-slope to power-gaming, something I abhor. I am very much a low-power gamer.

4) If you played in the bygone halcyon days when D&D was new, then you may remember just how valuable a stat boost was. Over time a character could change anything about themselves, even their race and gender, yet likely finish their career with the same stats they started with. There was much talk about this back then, with many thinking that characters should somehow be able to raise their stats over time. I feel the same way.

5) I think it's both far more realistic, and rewarding, using the method I use, which is this:

a)Players have 63 points which they can assign as they please; however they cannot assign more than 14 points into any one ability.

b) Apply racial modifiers (which may raise a score over 14).

c) Add one point where desired for being a 1st level character. Thereafter, PCs get one additional point at each new level. Players must alternate at each level between raising a physical ability (s, d, c) or a mental one (i, w, ch). Even warriors have their minds broadened from travelling to exotic locations, and even mages get hardier from hiking about. This also prevents someone from pouring all their points into one ability every level and becoming overbalanced.

This is the method I use, and am using in ToEE. Thanks to learning the console, and now moving spells around, I get to play a game with my home rules. And that rules!

 

Fair enough.

When I run tabletop games these days, I usually run point based systems. One of the things I liked about D&D 3.5 was the further step away from random rolls and set classes towards point based character creation and customization, That said, many people didn't like that. To each his own.

In ToEE I always felt that 25 points created characters that were powerful enough without making the game too easy, and 50 points worked well for odd multiclasses and such. Point totals for abilities in 3.5 aren't really directly comparable to the old D&D and AD&D scores imo; the mechanics have changed enough that every 2 points up or down now makes a real difference for every character.

Low power can be great fun, of course; makes the game more challenging.

 

Hi all:

I'm an old-schooler. [voice= old & grumpy] "When I was your age, we only had 3d6 chargen, and we LIKED it!" [/voice] (3d6 averages 63 points, the same as a 15 point buy (48 + 15 = 63).)

Old time gamer myself, but are you considering that stats above 16 cost more than one point.

 

Did you read my post?

And stats above 14 cost more.

 

@ Aeroldoth:

The one consideration I'd suggest (and figure you've already thought of it and consider it accounted for with your +1 to an ability score each level) is that while the average character generated using 3d6 will have 63 points, it is likely that there will be highs and lows; that is, it is unlikely that they will all be between 8 & 14. Speaking as an old school gamer (though not as old-school as some; I started playing in 1980, in 4th grade), I remember the enjoyment of figuring out what a newly-generated character would ^be^, based on the vagaries of their dice rolls. That was fun.

I know there's fun in the point-buy system too, and it sounds like you run a fun campaign, I'm just playing devil's advocate here for what OS element might not be included by your approach. . .

 

im another ol time gamer and i was never crazy about just the roll of the die for char gen either. the way i came up with for my players was to roll 3d6 place the scores where you wanted. i started the players at 0 level -500xp and no class. when they reached 0 xp they could choose a class and a point boost equal to the difference between thier scores total and 85 and they could add those points where they wanted. this allowed people that wanted to play paladins, bards and rangers to do so and have decent stats.

 

I first played AD&D in 1977. Wish I'd kept the books. Anyway, I don't worry much about old time or new fangled beyond what keeps the game fun and what doesn't. In a solo computer game, that pretty much comes down to the style of the individual gamer.

 

True. But in reality, the average kid fresh out of puberty doesn't have a staggering intellect, houdini-like agility or become the prophet for millions. Nor are they likely to have a severe handicap without some accident having happened. Most people are, more or less, average joes. And while some may argue that PCs are, by their nature, superior, I strongly disagree. I want to emphasize to players that PCs are heroes because of what they do, NOT because they were born that way.

If you happen to have a copy of the old DMG1 (DM's Guide, 1st edition) in the early pages is a graph showing the bell curve for the 3d6 spread. The bulk of the rolls fall into the 9-12 range, tapering down sharply on either end. Yes, some die rolls won't fall in the median, but I believe in balancing characters, not letting players find ways to make themselves super powerful.

I remember that too, but it wasn't fun for us. If we wanted a cleric and nobody rolled high enough, what could we do? If a player had their heart set on playing x, but the dice wouldn't let them play that, is the player going to have a lot of fun? By using a pool, players can create the character they want without the vicissitudes of the dice. With my limitation, characters start out average, like everyone else, and have to earn their stripes, as it were.

 

Yes I did!

Oh, uh, you were referring to the ^characters^ being generated. :blush:

Seriously, I see the good in your system, and you make good points. I was just saying there's a certain thrill in the roll-of-the-dice character generation I personally wouldn't want to have given up (or do, maybe it's nostalgia, but I really like rolling to generate). One thing we used to do (though not when I dmed) was 3d6 rolls, you had to place them in the order you rolled but you could decrease an ability score by 2 to increase another one by 1. It worked ok.

But no doubt, it lends itself (inevitably) to powergaming and late-night absurdity (i.e. "no, I ^really^ ^rolled^ those eighteens! Look, he only has a 14 charisma. Yes, I really did. I promise.").

 

Now that I remember.

 

...and were you average?

Oh, I know what you mean. Like a gambler, putting down the dice was a very hard thing to do. I think all of us at one point or another liked making characters we were never gonna use, just to roll the dice and hear them clatter across the table. "Woohoo, a 17!"

The method you describe was from the Basic rules (BD&D as I call it, even though it was the original D&D). That was the method I was referring to when rolling up characters, and us players were loath to take +1/-2 to stats.

In any case, those days are long gone and as OB said, all that really matters for crpgs is whatever makes the individual gamer happy. Happy gaming!