Newbie asking for guidance and opinions

:twitch:
I Am very new to this game, and my knowledge of D&D is extremely limited to say the least.
(always wanted to get into it, but never had anyone to do it with)
I Found this game and thought it looked like something i would really enjoy and so here i am.
As the total nublet that i am i was hoping some of you more helpful people would be willing to... well help.
Mostly i really need a stat explanation for each class, what should i focus on, what does what for what, etc..
I Know this is probably asking a lot so if you feel the urge to tell me off then please just avoid this post all-together and leave. If you decide to help me out then i will be very appreciative.

Basically this is all i know so far.
My current plan for a party will (if it's suitable) be...

-Chaotic Neutral for Party Alignment-
Dwarf - Fighter - Male - Chaotic Good
Human - Cleric - Female - True Neutral
Halfling - Rogue - Male - Chaotic Neutral
???? - Monk - Male - Chaotic Good
???? - Sorcerer - Female - Chaotic Evil (Necromancer?)

Also considering making the Monk the "Tank" of the group and turning the Fighter into an Archer. Or maybe starting the Rogue out as a Fighter/Archer then going into a Rogue for a sub-class. (I Haven't gotten past the creation screen yet so i don't know how the gameplay works past some videos on Youtube and i don't have a clue how multi-classing works, i just read that Fighters make good archers and good pre-Rogues)

Now what i am asking for in particular is what stats do i need for each class and if my ideas are sound.
Also would really like some input on what kind of Feats and Skills i should have for them as well since this is my first time through and i don't want this to be an insanely frustrating game that i will just give up on within the first few levels.
On a side note i have the Temple.dll fix, but i do also have the Atari3 patch (do not have co8 yet, wanted to play Vanilla first)

So again, any help is greatly appreciated and welcomed.
Any hate is also welcome if you feel you really need to get it off your chest.
Thanks in advance! :yes:

 

A Chaotic Neutral party won't be able to have a Monk in it, as Monks are Lawful.

I think you shouldn't worry too much about getting it perfect on the first try. You DO need to consider who is your 'face' character in the group. There is a lot of dialog in this game.

All you need are the original game patched to patch 2 (not 3) and the 5.8 downloads. The temple.dll fix is very old and will break your installation. Very few additional items will be compatible the 5.8 materials.

 

Well, I don't have many posts but am quite familiar with Dungeons and Dragons mechanics and how they apply to this game so I'll take a stab at this one. In general, the best way to learn what works in this game is simply trail and error(duhh). Because this game can be a lot to learn I will list a few simple things that will help you not get killed immediately.

1. Give yourself good attributes and HP. This means rolling over and over until you have an 18 for your primary stat and 16's or better for CON(for extra hit points) and Dex(harder to hit). There are ways to set all your stats to whatever you want but I don't think you need to go that far.

Remember that different classes value different ability scores. (No fighter needs to be smart and no wizzard needs to be strong). But everyone can use DEX and CON. Make sure you know which stats are important when making your party!

Also you can set the option for max HP per level which will definately help a newbie. Just make sure you don't do this for enemies too!!!

As you get better at the game then a huge part of the fun will be playing characters without great stats and the challenge that comes with it. For now, my advice is to NOT play with average characters. This game will humble you, trust me.



2. Your party is well balanced. I would have your fighter take a level of barbarian as well so he gets the increased movement rate and rage.

I don't want to start a sorceror vs wiz. debate here but I would probably lean towards a wizzard for a newbie. Sorcerors get to cast more spells per day but they only have a few to choose from. This means that if you choose a spell that you don't really need you will be stuck with it. Wizzards are much more forgiving because you can learn every single spell that is available. If you make a bad decision in picking spells(and you will as a newbie) its no big deal as a wizzard because you can pick all of them!!

3. Save often. Don't view this is cheap or anything like that. Comats can go bad in a hurry and sometimes saved games become corrupted. Save early save often and save in different slots. Do NOT save over the same slot repeatedly. Have a couple save points and rotate them. If one becomes corrupted you will have another to fall back on. Did I mention, save often??

I'm far from a computer expert and other people here can explain why this works the way it does.

4. Open up the part of the game screen that is represented with the "dice" and look at it during combat. This will give you a detailed explanation as to why your spells, attacks, whatever is working or not working. You will see what works and what you are doing wrong and it will allow you to make changes anf improve your play.

5. Do some XP building up at first. Travel out of Homlet and camp out. You will be atacked. Kill monsters, gain XP. Repeat. Do this at least until you are level 2 or 3 as a newbie. (At least I did).Remember to save while you "farm" experience because you will loose many fights.


I could go on and on(in much more detail) but I think this should give you a good start without confusing you. I apologize if was telling you things that seem obvious. You said that you really don't know much so I was basing my advice on that. The game is great and you'll pick it up as you go along.

I hope this helps.

Chris.

 

Yeah i know about this, but the problem is (as i asked in my post) that i don't know which class focuses on which stat as a primary/secondary.
I Assume a Fighter/Barb would be mostly Str/Con, but i am not sure about that.
As far as pretty much any other class goes i have no idea really, i think Mages go for Int and Clerics go for Wisdom, but again i don't really know.
For things like Rangers, Bards, etc.. i have pretty much no idea.
Also i was watching an LP of this game (well i watched the character creation and a couple fights before i got this game) and the guy i watched had super high Charisma on the 2 characters i saw him make (Paladin and Sorc), i was wondering if this is a class stat that is needed or is it something all classes need to focus on? (he put 18's on both characters)

Also, thanks Chris for taking the time to type all that out, i am sure it will wind up helping me a lot.

No clue what you mean by this though.

Didn't realize that about a Monk, thanks for filling me in. Guess i will be changing my Party Alliance because i really want a Monk.
I Was hoping to make the Monk or Fighter the "Face" and focus most of their skills on dialog helping ones, like Intimidate, Diplomacy, Sense Motive... Although i did read that Gather Information is practically useless in this game since it only shows up once or twice in a complete game. (or so was this guys experience)

Also GuardianAngel82, Since i do have it upped to 3, is that a problem (since i also have temple.dll) to play through without co8?
Basically i am asking if something is wrong with 3 and/or temple.dll until i decide to change to co8?
I Do still have the old temple.dll backed up.

Thank you also for the post GA82!

 

Here is a good link where you can get a solid run down of a lot of the things you are asking. They also talk about spells, skills, feat, etc.. The various classes are listed on the right side.

http://www.gamebanshee.com/templeofelementalevil/classes.php

About the Paladin and Sorceror, the answer is yes. Both of those classes value charisma.

As a rule of thumb, all classes value con because it gives a character more hit points. Dex is good too for all because it make you harder to hit.

I'll go through your party and give you my recomendations. Just note that you dont get feats all at once. You get them as you gain levels. Feats are an important part of making a character.

Dwarf - Fighter - Male - Chaotic Good

Solid choice here. I don't want to tell you how to build your character but just make sure you take the feats power attack , cleave and great cleave. Pick out a weapon, prefably a two handed weapon and take weapon focus and weapon specialization in that weapon as you gain levels.

Human - Cleric - Female - True Neutral

Another solid choice. Make sure you put skill ranks in spell craft and concentration as you level. Wisdom is most important. Charisma is important for turning undead. Strength is good if you plan on having them fight and clerics make solid tanks.

Halfling - Rogue - Male - Chaotic Neutral

Another good choice. Dex is most important. Intelligence is too. This will be your best option for a face character. Rogues get more skill points then any other class so they are a natural pick. Because they will be talking a lot you also want to give him a good charisma. Make sure that you max out open lock, search, disable device. For the dialogue skills, focus on bluff, diplomacy, sense motive, intimidate and gather information. Those are all 5 of the talking skills.


Take the feats point blank shot and precise shot as your first two feats and you will have a solid archer to support your dwarf tank. Rogues, with their high dex, make good archers. Those feats are a must have for a one.


???? - Sorcerer - Female - Chaotic Evil (Necromancer?)

Like I said before I would take a wiz for a newbie but if you got your heart set on one then make sure charisma is 18. Con and dex need to be high too because they are quite vulnerable in combat.
Btw a sorcerror cant be a "necromancer" per say in the way a wizzard can. You can pick a bunch of necromancy spells if you want but only a wizzard can be a "specialist".

If you have your mind set on being a sorceror here are some spells to make sure you get:
(and im sure I'M forgetting some)

Level 1: magic missle(many experts might disagree), sleep, grease.

Level 2. Glitterdust, tashas hideous laughter

Level 3: haste, fireball, heroism

By the time you have level 4 spells available you will know enough to pick out yourself.


???? - Monk - Male - Chaotic Good

Dude, sorry to say, but in my opinion they aren't very good. If you have your heart set on playing one then have at it. I dont know much about them myself. Wisdom is important. Strenght, dex and con are too.

Take a half orce fighter/barb for your first run instead. Save the monk for run #2. (My advice)

Lastly, I would strongly recomend you download the latest patch on this site. Here is the link.

http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6695

Like I said, Im not expert with computers but the instructions are pretty solid and it makes the game infinately better. Plus when you ask questions here people here will probably just assume you have the patch and give you answers from that perspectave. Trust me, it's well worth the up front work of downloading this patch and making it work if you plan on playing this game.

The mods here are usually pretty friendly and willing to help a newbie with technical support from what I've seen. Just dont spam the board!!!


Now I'm in the mood to start a new game!!

Later,

Chris

 

Thanks a lot for that link!
I Had never heard of GameBanshee and i can see myself using it quite a bit.
It already helped me make a Wizard.
Lawful Evil, Wizard-Necromancer, Elf, Female, 18 int, 18 con, etc...
Hated i could only choose one Feat though, i picked Empower Magic i think it was called, or something to that effect.
I Have reconsidered making the Monk on your suggestion as well.
Got a lot more reading/planning to do before i can finally begin my quest!

 

Feat wise, I always take spell penetration for wizards. Thats just me though.

 

Meh, unless you expect to rely on them in the big boss battles, there aren't that many creatures with high enough SR to warrant it. IMO, spell school focus feats are better.

 

Don't forget to make a character that is really good at the SEARCH skill. This is not a spoiler, but rather a general strategy for any D&D game. You don't want to be missing any secret doors/areas. Ranger's and rogues have SEARCH as a class skill. An elven rogue that is skilled at searching is a nice choice IMO.

As for the comment on maxing your stats. Don't waste your time re-rolling. If this is your cup-of-tea there's a trick you can do to get 18's in every stat if you like in under 5 min. It has to do with dragging a rolled stat to a location on the screen where the boxes appear on the "point-buy" tab , or something like that. Then you toggle between the screens. Google it. Or you can just use the command to give yourself whatever stats you want anyway. There's a command list on this site somewhere.

I highly recommend making realistic characters to get the full experience of this module. The fully Co8-modded game is brilliant and you'll never play another like it. You may want to savour the experience on your first run through by not making it a cake-walk. Just my 2, have fun!

 

So what exactly are realistic characters? I am thinking about restarting my game because it feels like a cakewalk until now (I am currently lvl 4 at the Mothhouse). I rerolled so my characters would have at least an 18 in their primary skill attribute (Dex for rouges, Str for my warrior and so on) and all other attributes at least over 10. My ranger, cleric rougue even have two 18s...

 

Even that is not necessary, remember they get to add to their attributes every 4 levels, and when you get a little higher you find or make magic items to raise them even further. Nothing wrong with a 16 in your main stat, it will get into the 20's before too long. I'm currently running a team with only one mega stat guy, 18,17,16,16,14,11, but only because I hit it on the 3rd roll, might as well use him!

 

i actually rolled my ranger/ rogue character as all 16's ... 3rd roll as well if i remember correctly. figured it was meant to be. he's doing awesome now, level 12 and equipped with the Robes of Midnight, Gloves of Dexterity +6 and a Enchanted Longbow that shoots flaming arrows.

A good example of average stats making a decent character is Spungnior the NPC wizard- i use him just about every playthrough since he is pretty good with a heavy crossbow, especially once it is enchanted... give him a level or two of Rogue for sneak attack damage and versatility (he is an adventuring wizard now, not a "sage from Stalmeer" any longer) and he makes a great crafter, or meta-magic rear column heavy artillery, slinging spells.

i tried to focus on making him an ice and stat-affecting (Ice Storm, Slow, Chill Touch, Ray of Enfeeblement... etc.) wizard this time around.

I usually give him a strength boosting item just to stop his whining any time he is carrying more than 29 lbs LOL though he does not need it wielding a crossbow.

His stats, if you look at levelup are NOT impressive but he does pretty well.

 

IMO you can get an idea of what a realistic character is by using the point-buy option for character creation. Having one perfect 18 is certainly realistic for a hero. After all they are heroes and should be above average at something. But you'll find that with the 18 you won't be able to make your other stats very high, which adds to the realism.

If I recall the points you get for point-buy in ToEE is really low, something like 15 points. You can always make your own rule and allow 20 pts. or something like that. (can't modify the game engine so you'll need to use "give-stat" command to do this).

Another option I've found to be effective is to create a rule for rolling your stats. Say 3 rolls allowed, and you can't go back once you've decided not to use the roll. If you don't like that increase it to 5 or 10 rolls. Makes things interesting.

 

So a TWF Elven Ranger with

Str 18
Dex 20
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 16
Cha 10

is definetly overpowered and will ruin first playthrough?

I would like to use the point Buy option but I find it hard to build a decent rouge or cleric with it since both need to focus on several attributes to work at all...

Maybe I am a bit spoiled because of the high roll scores one can get in this game compared to the buy option.

 

I think that would be fine. Would put the 18 in con and take weapon finesse but hey. If I were you I wouldn't worry about being overpowered on the first play-through. You will need all the help you can get -just so long as it's not game breaking; which having a couple high stats is not.