crafting burst weapons

Remember that ToEE treats flaming and flaming burst as separate upgrades. I described the damage from flaming burst, and if you crafted a weapon with flaming in addition to flaming burst it would stack with that.

Anyway, I just tested things out in 5.7.2 and it's as Plothos describes. I used a longsword +3 and a fighter with a +3 strength modifier.

longsword +3
normal damage = 1d8 + 3 + 3
critical damage = 2d8 + 6 + 6

longsword +3 [shock]
normal damage= 1d8 + 3 + 3 + 1d6
critical damage = 2d8 + 6 + 6 + 1d6

longsword +3 [shocking burst]
normal damage = 1d8 + 3 + 3 + 1d6
critical damage = 2d8 + 6 + 6 + 1d10

longsword +3 [shock] [shocking burst]
normal damage = 1d8 + 3 + 3 + 1d6 + 1d6
critical damage = 2d8 + 6 + 6 + 1d6 + 1d10

 

This makes me believe that a burst w/o elemental upgrade should deal extra elemental dmg only on critical.

 

Oh, my bad.

Oh, that's what it was. Too bad. Iolo's crossbow needs a comeback, still ^__^ Personally, I think it'd be cool if we had some quests to collect ingredients to "craft" special weapons, functioning through dialogue, not unlike the rust-cleaning excercise in KoTB but a bit more complicated; but I know that's too much to ask. Oh, also, are poison arrows/elemental arrows possible to make?

Also, last thing the game needs is more overpowered weapons. I'm wondering if there's a way to nerf the crafting system somehow - like increasing the price, etc. Ah, if only there was a way to make gold less plentiful in-game. By decreasing the selling price for magic weapons, maybe? It usually feels silly to be able to craft weapons almost stronger than Fraggy for everyone in the party and still end the game with 10k+ platinum.

 

Thank heaavens for this clarification. I've been scratching my head for two days trying to figure out exactly what these enhancements do and how they stack. I'm mighty gratefull for the note above that if you have the improved critical feat for a weapon, then there is no point in crafting keen into it since it will not stack.

It is undoubtedly great fun crafting these super-weapons. One has to feel a bit for the poor monsters thougth. I mean they haven't really got a chance have they?

 

^ Not really, no. Which is why I'm somewhat grateful for my original vanilla game crashing every time I tried crafting, thus making my first few playthroughs full of fun. Balor was a SLAUGHTER. IMO, crafting needs to be nerfed a bit. Maybe make masterwork stuff more rare - as loot, perhaps, rather than all of it available in shops at low price.

But well, I'm hoping for 6.0.0 to restore the balance. If we get Reactive Temple and high-level encounters in the end, the crafting may actually feel like a necessity more that a cheesy easy-win.

 

I think crafting is a diifcult thing to get right in CRPG games.

In NWN2 for example I found that whenever I got the stuff together to build my next weapon, shortly afterwards I would stumble across a better one in a chest somewhere.

In Gothic 3 crafting is a no-brainer a bit like ToEE - except that they must have realised they'd over egged it a bit so the blighters restricted it on the quiet. I bought the blueprints for a specialist two-weapon style master sword for 20,000GP (a lot in that game) and set my character build in that direction - except I found that the other requirement for these weapons, a katana, is not avaiable in the game. There is only one in a chest that you don't get until late in the game and I wanted a matching pair, so 20k GP up the spout. I was not amused by that.

Personally I think a game should be honest about it. If you can craft weapons that are better than any you can find then the game documentation should make this plain. And if you can't, well there's little point in having crafting in the game at all really. and the documentation should certainly make this clear.

 

thank you, this clarifies things.
Could you check a burst with a scyth? (x4 multiplier, it should add 3d10 damage on a burst, per burst)

This shows that comparing to PnP values, TOEE crafted items cost more, give more damage per regular hit, and less damage per crit.

The burst enchantment REPLACES the 1d6 damage with the 1d10 on a crit, which is incorrect.

As far as the "on command" thing... you can as a free action speak the command word which makes the weapon elemental powers activate. The only purpose of that is so that you could deal non-lethal damage, not emit light (flaming is very clearly visible), knight someone without burning off their hairs, etc.
The burst property cannot be controlled in such a matter, it just happens whether you like it or not.

Here are the values that the items SHOULD have if they follow the SRD:
using a longsword +3 and a fighter with a +3 strength modifier.

This is correct

This is also correct (extra damage dice such as the elemental bonus damage does NOT multiply when scoring a crit by the RAW)

This SHOULD be:
normal damage = 1d8 + 3 + 3 + 1d6
critical damage = 2d8 (slashing) + 6 (slashing) + 6 (slashing) + 1d6 (electric) + 1d10 (electric)

The shocking burst should be an upgrade to shock that increases its price from +1 to +2. currently it is a separate +2 enchantment for a total of +3. The correct damage is the same as the one I have given for shocking burst in the line above.

So the errors are:
1. Adding elemental burst does not require basic elemental property.
2. Adding elemental burst costs +2 by itself, instead of upgrading the +1 basic elemental to +2 elemental burst.
3. Burst correctly deals 1d6 damage on a regular hit.
4. Burst incorrectly eliminates the 1d6 damage on a crit and REPLACES it with Xd10. It should be +1d6 + Xd10
5. Basic elmental and elemental burst enchantments DO stack for a +2d6 on a normal hit (should be a +1d6), and +1d6 + Xd10 on a crit (this is correct for a burst weapon).
6. Values for items with x3 crit multi and x4 multi unknown... EDIT: I have fixed my computer and got TOEE installed and tested it out with a longspear. shocking burst, and flaming burst... they each gave +2d10 on a crit, which is the correct value for an x3 weapon.

There is an easy as pie method of fixing it:
1. Make elemental burst enchantment REQUIRE basic elemental enchantment, just like +2 enchantment requires having +1.
2. Make elemental burst enchantment cost +1 (since it requires basic elemental, the total price is +2)
3. Eliminate the +1d6 damage on a normal hit for the burst enchantment.

This will result in a longsword +3 [shock] [shocking burst] wielded by STR16 fighter doing:
normal damage = 1d8 + 3 + 3 + 1d6
critical damage = 2d8 + 6 + 6 + 1d6 + 1d10

Thus being correct as per RAW, SRD, etc.

PS. if someone could implement it so that basic elemental damage is not added when using "non lethal damage mode" than all would be perfect. (presumably, you use the command word automatically, as a "free action" when you switch from lethal to nonlethal mode)

 

^ Uhh, that sucks, but is actually a funny bug ^___^ So, does it apply only to elemental ammo, or also the magic arrows already in-game?? I've never seen it happen.

If you think about it, that could be worked into something useful. Like, make new artwork for the item - like a rune or an artifact of sorts - and then make it really rare and/or expensive since it imbues weapons with special abilities. I know, sounds like MMO crap, but could be an intersting alternative or supplement to crafting.

 

while creative alternatives to crafting exist, those will make the game distinctly NOT DnD...

 

Well, I know, I'm just saying. Just thinking of ways to nerf the overpowered crafting. I personally like that KoTB idea - would make for a reasonable method to craft stuff not available through crafting interface.

Also, derailing it a bit, but will the stuff that the Traders only sell, like acid bottles and whatnot, be craftable or available at other shops?