The Arena of Heroes Mod (Beta)

@Morpheus

Adding your mod on top of the other would be way sweet and the fixes I cant wait for all that to be added

patiently waiting for all the updates at once and then maybe this time I will truly enjoy TOEE as much as BG and of its mods

 

Yes, I totally agree.
If I can, may I ask you some other stuff?
- I don't see some of the changes that you described in this forum. May it be because I'm using the italian version?
Is it possible to fix what follow?
- ToEE doesn't allow to handle regular size weapons with 2 hands.
- when multiclassing, the class skills from the first class should become class skills for the new one, used to multiclass. For example, a thief who dualclasses to bard should be able, when getting new bard levels, to spend points in disarming devices like if it was a bard class skill.
- is it possible to add feats (like superior weapon specialization), magical items along the game and/or to create a spellcaster that will enchant masterwork gear for the party? I think it is quite irritanting that there are no magic weapons of some particular kinds - like dwarven war axes - and that a party needs spellcasters with generical "craft stuff" feats to have proper weapons and armors. It is not nice to choose Weapon Focus and Specialization and Improved Critical for one weapon to discover, later in the game, that there are not magical weapons of that kind and that you must take something else to defeat monsters with magical damage-reduction.
Generally, I see that here there are many persons with many good ideas... I wonder if it is possible to use ToEE to create a sort of new adventure using map, graphic and rules from the original game...
Bye for now!

 

Yes it does, at least if you have patch 2, Co8 3.04 and the updated temple.dll installed. (I'm not sure which one fixes it, but it's there. The character animation still show's one-handed use, but the damage is two-handed.)

That's not the way the D&D rules work. Multi-classing means you can have level+3 ranks in any skill that is a class skill of any of your classes. But it still costs two points per rank to raise any skill that is not a class skill for the class you are currently leveling up in. (And I believe moebius' temple.dll is what fixes it so ToEE implements this correctly.)

Why is this unfair? While in my table-top games I will occaisionally place magical items with a specific PC in mind, for the most part I equip enemy NPCs as they should be equipped and use the random tables for dragon hordes and the like. If players want something specific, they find someone who has it for sale or they make it themselves. Considering there are already a couple of NPCs with magical items for sale and the game allows you to craft your own items, I think ToEE already handles this nicely. (When supplemented by the Co8 patch that allows you to buy masterwork items from Brother Smyth anyway.)

 

Aww: that's bad. It is my mistake: I don't have anymore the 3.0 italian manual to check, but I'm sure about that and probably it was a transaltion error that the translators fixed in the 3.5 So, nothing to complain.

You made the point: in ToEE there is missing a shopkeeper that may enchant specific weapons for specific players. Let's say that I want to play the already called dwarf warrior.
If I want to make a nice role-playing, I'll use hammer and axes and, since I'm not dull, I'll spend some feats to improve my dwarf skills with his favourited weapon: the dwarven battle haxe (1D10 20/x3 - exotic).
Now, in a real RPG with friends I may go to the first good smith that I know and I'll buy a masterwork d. axe as soon as I can and then I'll see what I find while adventuring. Then, if my PG finds nothing really suitable for him, he may want to sell some of the magic stuff that he found to buy a magic adamantine lawful flamming dwarven battle axe +5 or to make the masterwork one he brought to be enchanted following his will, so that he can use the feats that he learned instead of wasting them because he can't find a decent weapon of the right type.
Instead in ToEE this is NOT possible! To kill creatures with damage reduction, he doesn't have any other choice than to use that crappy magic scimitar that he found but that he doesn't feel comfortable. OR the player must edit a party that MUST include a spellacsters with craft feats and, even better, a cleric with alignemt domains (I hope the grammar is right) so that he may make holy/lawful (or chaotic) weapons for the party.
At the end, since ToEE is still a videogame that is missing the human interaction because of it inner nature, the player doesn't have the freedom to make the party that he likes following his role-playing but he must create and rise the party following the idea that some choices will proof unuseful later in the game. This is true for warriors, but as well for all combat classes where improved critical and weapon focus may be important feats. As well, for monks that are forced to use magic staffs or to have a druid that will forge gaunlets of mighty fist because otherwise they will turn unuseful. The only fighting classes that may ignore the problems are the ones that use weapon finess and may switch light weapons without heavy penalities. So I don't see why Jaroo, the cleric in the cathedral or the mage in the castle (sorry, now I miss the names) couldn't enchant/improve or create mage magic items for a fee for the party. They looks powerfull and skilled enough!
Instead I would agree about weapons forged with specific materials. A damage reduction that is 5 magic + 5 adamantine, for example, is something unaffordable for almost every warrior class that is using a normal or masterwork weapon, instead a d.r. of 5/- (or something that the fighter can't overcome) is something that makes the fight harder but not impossible. That's why it is possible to kill those nasty werewolves in the temple, so that finding a random silver weapon would allow to the player the possility to CHOOSE among a lower hit score or more damage instead than forcing him to adopt fixed patterns to win fights. Ok, I think that I wrote even too much, I hope it is not an OT. Wait your answers... I can't program but I hope I can give a good contribute with ideas.
M.

 

You are right, but, if we include the +1 holy longsword availabe if marrying Meleny, we are naming too many swords and too few of other weapons. I don't want just powerful weapons - the game offers many of them already, but it left uncovered some sides of players growing.
I mean, there is not a decent bow for an archer, just somethere are not exotic magic weapons except Fragrach/Scather and the thorned chain of love, there are not decent light weapons for classes that may want to use weapon finesse instead of strenght and for fighting with 2 weapons, nor "tactical" weapons that have some interesting defensive or not-damage oriented ability.
Not to talk about the fact that the game is missing of essential stuff like a cloack of eagle splendor for paladins, bards, sorcerers or gaunlets of mighty fists for monks and there is NO PLACE FOR BELTS in the inventory. Add to this that Troika didn't had the time to develop dual weapons and special material weapons and armors, so you see how many sides of ToEE are still uncovered. Oh, Baldur's Gate, where are you?
At last, I tell you that it is indeed possible to end the game without the "craft magic weapons and armors" feat, especially now with the cap remover, since the increased party level tends to cover the lack of magic weapons, but still the point is that if a player may want to enjoy some classes or combination of weapons and feats, he must choose between customizing the party according to the magic items already available in the game or he MUST take the craft magic stuff feats. So, there is no real choice and the game leaves uncovered some areas of gameplay. The ideal solution would be to have at least a +1 magic weapon of every kind among the most used and at least the weakest version of the most used magical items so that it is possible to enjoy the game in complete freedom and then it is the player's choice to take the craft magic stuff feats if he wants to improve the items. Just to make you an example, in the game there is the headband of intellect +4 and the braciers of archery, lesser. If a player wants to have a wizard and/or a archer in the party, it is his choice to invest money in crafting a stronger headband of intellect (+6) and/or braciers or archery, greater, and having the crafter weaker because of the loss of XPs or to keep improving the party level having anyway a minimum offensive ability garanted.
Matt.

 

well orion there are in fact alot of different magic weapons already in the game, in fact i think there are less than a dozen that dont have one magical in the game. i have magical axes, all the blunt weapons except clubs, bows, every type of sword there is. i prefer the composite bows to the magical bows myself. they are in the game if you can find them.

well the cloak and the gauntletsi dont know about but Allyx and others are always adding new items to the game. there is a place for belts in the inventory cause my fighter is wearing a belt of giant strength, its in the bottom row right corner. dual weapons also works, rangers get it for free at second level and just about anyone else can pick it from the feats list if they want. you can even improve on it at a higher level.

well i play the party i want with the classes i enjoy using the weapons i like, and no one in my party uses the same weapon, without crafting items. i have tried it out and done it on occasion but ive also played many times without any carfting and i can still do it and enjoy it alot

 

I think he's talking about double weapons as in single weapons that can be used to fight with both ends. Personally, I'm glad they're not in the game because every single one of them outside of the quarterstaff and the dwarven urgosh are lame and non-sensical. (Dire flail, anyone?)

The belt thing is actually an inovation of one of the Co8 mods, as in the base game they just had gauntlets of strength. (Still, it sucks that the belt shares the same slot as thieves tools and ioun stones. What if I want my fighter-rogue to have a belt of strength? Switching between the tools and the belt is a pain. I wonder if the musical instrument slot might not be a better choice for the belts? I mean, granted then you can't buff your bard's strength, but how many people use bards as meleers?)

 

Answer to Graywolfe and considerations about double weapons.

Aww, you must tell me wher to find it, because the best that I was able to find is a +1 longbow and I'm sure that, after playing the game so many times, I missed almost nothing.
And, sorry, but I don't trust you: I dare to make a party like that without the crafting feats and to end the game winning all the most difficult fights.
- Dwarven warrior specialized in dwarven battleaxe
- elvish ranger with bonus feats oriented to archery and weapon focus for longbow
- half-elf thief or bard with weapon finesse and feats for rapier
- human a druid with scimitar
- any arcane spellcaster.
Show me how you are supposed to win every fight without bypassing damage reduction or dealing damage only with a bows that deals a mere 1D8+1 against monsters with DR 10. At the beginning you'll start to use magic weapon and/or magic vest to improve the masterwork items that the Co8 luckyly added to the smith, then you'll be forced to use the magic weapons that you'll find, wasting the feats that you spent to improve your party combat skills, or you will have to take the crafting feats for the druid and the arcane spellcaster.

Kalshane, my friend, you really got my ideas! It is a deal that you understood it. One more reason to wish a separated place for belts is that the slot for thieves' tools is for magic stones too! So a PC can't have the belt AND the stone.
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About double weapons, like double longsword or gyrspyke, you must figure out that they are made specifically for warriors. A ranger, thief or bard may get more benefits if fighting with 2 light weapons thanks to weapon finesse, since they can't spend too much points in strenght, but a warrior may take the feat for exotic weapon comeptence so that he gets the benefits of weapon specialization for both endings of the weapon, dealing a lot of damage more.
Take this as example:
elvish ranger 4th: STR 13 DEX 18(15+1(4th)+2elf) CON 10 INT 10 SAG 14 CHAR 8
1) Weapon finesse, focus and 2 short swords: 1D6+1 at +7 to hit x 2 attacks. If both weapons strike, the middle damage is 9 damage, with a great bonus to hit.
2) Weapon Focus (+1 more feat at 3rd) and 2 longsword: 1D8+1 at +1 to hit x 2 sttacks. If both weapons strike, the middle damage is 11 damage, with a terrible bonus to hit.
3) E.Weapon comp: double sword + weapon focus: 1D8+1 at +3 to hit x 2 attacks. If both edges strike, the middle damage is 11 damage, with a mediocre bonus to hit.
As you see, he gets even more benefits fighting with 2 light weapons. Wearing 2 medium weapons is a suicide since that -4 to hit will forbid him to strike any opponent, while the double sword choiche is in the middle but only for a +1 damage at the damage roll (1+6/2 = 3.5, 1+8/2 = 4.5)
Instead:
4) dwarven warrior 4th: STR 16 (15+1) DEX 13 CON 16 INT 10 SAG 12 CHAR 6
Dwarven urgosh competence is automatic, otherway consider a human fighter with same strenght and competence with gyrspyke took with human bonus feat, then add weapon focus and specialization to the urgosh:
Urgosh 1st edge: 1D8+5 at +6 to hit; Urgosh 2nd edge: 1D6+3 at +6 to hit. If both edges strike, the middle damage is 16 damage (17 with double sword, gyrspike or whaever deals 2 1D8 and that is almost the double dealth by the elf with 2 light shortswords), with a very good bonus to hit, very closed to the one that the elvish ranger has. Plus, add the bonuses to some actions that many double weapons may garant, like the +2 to trip attacks from gyrspyke and you'll see that every double weapon is everything but useless in the hand of the right PC/NPC (may it be a warrior with specialization, a barbarian or a ranger that has a strenght score good enough).
Still, it is a pity that the troika guys didn't develop any of them but we would have had probably the same problem with the "missing magic weapons": can't set up the PC level growth without the possibility to enhance the magic weapon without a magic crafter in the party.
Matt

 

well many of those weapons you mention ive never heard of. you said there should be at least a +1 weapon of the most common used and there are already in the game and many have +2 versions also. there may be more that i have missed in the game but the ones i have found are fine for finishing the game. the +1 longbow is the only one i have found but there is a magical bow in the game, i just do better with comp bow and magical arrows which arent all that hard to find. my party typically uses a greatsword, a longsword, a mace, a battleaxe-warhammer ( two weapon feat), a rapier-shortsword( two weapon feat), a comp longbow and a light crossbow i dont really like using scather as it makes the game to easy. some fights are harder than others, like the balor, but they can be done without powerful magic weapons. IMO the magic weapons the game provides are enough, it would be nice if there were more +2 weapons of some types but to many would unbalance the game. i have added, in some of my games, an additional + to some of my weapons using the crafting skill but i prefer not to use the XP of my spellcasters, besides its more of a challenge using whats there. there are some weapons in the description list that you can import that are more powerful than those in the game if you want them or you can bring a NPC spellcaster into your party and try to use them to craft weapons for you when they are at the right level, i havnt tried this so i dont know if it would work or not, and then let them go when you have what you want.

 

Sorry, there are not and I don't care about the +2 versions. I think too that having a +1 scimitar (there are not in the game) doesn't unbalance the game and doesn't change the lives of the ones that use other powerful weapons but is very important for a player that wants to play a proficient druid or a warrior specialized with critical hits.

I think that I explored almost every corner of the game except some addition that Liv may have done and I tell you that some wapons have been probably programmed for the game but not added for lack of time or some other reason.

IMO, instead there should be more variety of "simple" +1 weapons and less "special" weapons like the firesword or the holy ones.

Same problem for me and for everybody else.

I don't like cheating, nor having a ultra-powerful party for nothing. I like powerful items only if I there is something hard to do to obtain them. For example, having that +1 holy longsword or the 1D10 keen cleaver only for marrying somebody is just crazyness for me!
M.

 

well there is a +1 scimitar in the game, ive used it before. i dont remember where i got it for sure, a group of brigands or adventures from a random encounter i think. if i run across it again ill let you know where it is. i can make a +1 version of every weapon that is in the game but it would be up to Liv or Morpheus to put them in the game.

 

yes, I met them once, but I can't kill them with a good or neutral party! I must be evil or chaotic neutral. So.... it is like if it isn't available.
if you agree with me, I think it would be nice to have the following +1....

scimitar (improved critical oriented warriors; druid)
falchion (improved critical oriented warriors)
dwarven war axe (dwarves)
composite & powerful (strenght bonus +2) long & short bow (archery oriented warriors)
all exotic weapons but spiked chain (to give a sense in getting the exotic weapon competence feat)
hand axe (small size warriors, more choice for 2 weapons figthers, especially dwarven rangers)
light hammer (as above)
rapier (for all medium size weapon finesse-oriented warriors)

There is no need of a spiked chain because there is the thorned chain of love in the game. Maybe another bastard sword for the players that dont' want to use Scather. This should allow any player to make any choice in absolute freedom without regreting it later in the game.
Composite bows that uses strenght bonus are something quite strange. They are an investment in "paper" D&D 3.5, they are powerful but very expensive, even more if they are masterwork bows and even if they are not magical items.
Maybe the smith in Homelet should re-fill his inventory after completing some quest, like the giant one, or maybe it could be possible to free a wizard, that has been silenced and paralized with ropes sot hat he can't cast any teleport spell, from some deep temple level that will eventually enter in society with the smith, enchanting some weapon and selling the "missing" ones.
I'm waiting for your comments.

 

specifically about Arena of Heroes...

Guys, is there anybody that is carry on Morpheus' work?
I mean, it looked so interesting... it would be a pity if it would get lost because of the lack of compatibility with the latest (and always more intriguing) Livonya's stuff!

 

well like i said i can make those if they want to put them in. it will be up to the main modders to do that. ill make them so they are ready if they decide yes.

now the rapier is in the game both +1 and +2 so that and the scimitar i dont have to make. but the others that are already in the game i can do easy.