Monks, Bards, and Rangers. The 'other' white meat options.

This is quite an amusing thread, with several very informative posts thrown in along with the ones that make me cringe. :yes:

 

I don't think that's true, iirc base spell level is used to determine DC, otherwise a Druid who get's Finger of Death as 8th lvl spell would gain +1 DC compared to a wizard. That's not the case.

 

I was pointing out that the same spell often appears on the bard spell list one level lower, like Dominate Person at 4th rather than 5th. This was done to compensate for the slower progression but has the unfortunate effect of weakening the DCs of many bard spells (compared to that of identical spells found on other spell caster lists).

 

Yes I understood that. I was just doubting that it works that way.
If said druid is casting FoD at 8th lvl, the spell is still treated as lvl7 spell for purposes of DC. Because the base spell level is 7 not 8. If a wizard cast animate dead as lvl4 spell the spell is still treated as lvl3 (cleric spell list) for purposes of DC. If a cleric gets a certain spell 1 level earlier (because of Domain choice for instance) does the spell lose 1 DC? I doubt it. Therefor I don't think the bard loses DC on his spells. Either the spell is treated as lvl5 even when it is a lvl4 bard spell, or the lvl5 wizard spell is treated as lvl4. Or am I mistaken here?

 

First Edition introduced dual-wielding in Unearthed Arcana, using the rules Thorsson noted.

2nd Edition expanded the rules for dual-wielding (you could dual wield any two weapons as long as the off-hand weapon was smaller than your main weapon) and you could take the two-weapon fighting and ambidexterity weapon proficiencies to reduce the penalties. Later rules (I think either the Complete Fighter's Handbook or Complete Ranger's Handbook) allowed you spend additonal Weapon Proficiency slots on two-weapon fighting to further reduce the penalties and allow you to use two weapons of the same size. Rangers got two-weapon fighting and ambidexterity for free at 1st level.

As for the DC to resist spells, Basil is correct. The DC is set by what level the spell is for the class who is casting it, not what the highest level the spell is for any class. If a bard really wants their Dominate Person to be harder to resist, they can always take the "Heighten Spell" and cast it at 5th level. Or just take the Spell Focus: Enchantment feat and up the DCs of all his Charm spells by 1.

 

ah ok thx, probably I'm confusing this with other spell levels from metamagic.

 

Other random notes:

Cavaliers were a Kit (for Paladins, I think) in 2nd Ed. In the 3rd Ed, they were a prestige class. They do not appear at all (as of yet) in 4th Ed.

Rogues (bard, thief) and Warriors (Fighter, Paladin, Ranger) were the only classes that could spend proficiency slots on two-weapon fighting.

 

I DO remember being able to use additional slots to be able increase my dual-wield proficiency in 2ed. Wasn't there also a 2-handed wielding proficiency?

 

Yes. I believe 1 slot reduced the weapon speed of a two-handed weapon by 4 (Yay, 2nd Ed's wierd initiative rules) and a second slot gave you +1 to damage with two-handed weapons.

 

You guys spend to too much time calculating stats, bonuses and penalties. I used to do that, but I ended up generating new character after new character since there wasn't perfect build. Nowdays I just make a party that I LIKE to play with.

 

For me the planning, and then achieving the plan, is the best part. And that's the party I LIKE to play with.

 

Believe it or not, people play for different reasons. One person will try many different styles of play. If there was a best way to play this game, no one would still be playing.

Now, what is the best way to make a Sorceror-Monk?

 

I'm with Ergopandilus in that how 'effective' the characters is overall not as important as the background and concept/theme. I spend a fair amount of time trying to conceptualize how they would mesh which is probably a little odd for a cRPG.

edit: and the fact I use the 25 pt buy system definitely makes them less then optimal

 

Take 1 level of Monk, put the rest into Sorceror.

Oh. Was that ironic? Rhetoric? Sic?

 

Damn! Outsmarted again! :no: