Ranged attack problem

Let's take away all the crafting for a second. I used a rogue with all the talents and a +3 masterwork light crossbow. She was 2 shotting hill giants without any crafting other than the +3. It's not a crafting issue.

 

Here's my take on that: Other than removing the time requirement, the crafting in ToEE follows the RAW. Co8 has tried to avoid changing things in ways that are against the rules whenever possible.

If crafting a "super weapon" makes the game too easy, then there's a very simple solution: don't do it. If someone were to say "I made a party full of gnome monks, and now the game is too hard" I'd give them a similar response.

That's not to say the end game can't be better balanced, I agree, but if a course of action reduces your enjoyment of the game, then it's probably best to refrain from that course of action. Some people like crafting the crap out of their weapons, some people like tricking the game into letting them dual-wield Scather and Fragarach, some people like playing Iron Man, some people play the game solo and some people juggle geese.

Ultimately, it's up to you to decide how you want to play the game and get the most enjoyement of it. The modding community here tries to walk a fine line between making the game better overall and not changing the game in a way that makes it less enjoyable for people with differing tastes. Generally, more choice is better than less choice.

 

Well, that's not what you said initially

@Kalshane: Well, you're right in a way. I do hope the end-game gets a bit of a difficulty boost though.

 

Yes, it's true that not what I said initially but I was also being facetious. With crafting or without, the end result is the same. I can't think of anything to nerf it except to do what Kalshane said...just don't use missile weapons. Or perhaps use a cursed missile weapon, like maybe a friendslayer or a backbiter. I don't think any exist right now though. That would be something!

Or maybe juggle geese while trying to aim!

 

I've generally not bothered with missile weapons except when webbed etc. Just what happens that makes them overpowered?

 

I'm wondering the same thing. A rogue is only going to get their sneak attack with a ranged weapon when they catch their opponent flat-footed, or there's some other magical effect going on that leaves the opponent vulnerable.

You're going to get a lot more damage out of a rogue with Weapon Finesse, Two-Weapon Fighting-Imp TWF and getting into a flanking position than a rogue with Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot and Precise Shot. Granted, the archer-rogue is less vulnerable to counter-attack, but it takes more effort to consistently get the sneak attack damage out of an archer-rogue than a melee-rogue.

 

I believe I still have that rogue's party saved, I think. I'll try to fraps it and failing that, because I'm not a software wonder, just try to look at the combat log more to see what was happening. The rogue was basically like the strongest mage ever. Whatever enemy she decided to hit, they were dead, except they didn't get no saves.

 

Hi Kalshane
Forgive me for stating my take on your take. The original PnP module didn't really allow for crafted weapons. I don't have my original DMG in front of me, but I vaguely remember that the requirements for crafting ANYTHING (including scrolls) were fairly significant. For starters, your crafter needed a suitable workspace, and no, a small town tavern didn't qualify. Then you needed to stock it with all sorts of tools, instruments, etc... , which were not available in Hommlet. I also don't remember being able to add pluses and special elemental bursts and such to an existing magical weapon. Regarding the Time factor, wasn't there something in the original module about the Temple force recruiting new members as time went on??
The Royal Canadian

 

Well, crafting was quite a bit different back in 1st Ed.'

Per the 3.5 rules "The creator also needs a fairly quiet, comfortable, and well-lit place in which to work. Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items." So a private room at a small town tavern does qualify.

Adding additional enhancements to an existing item is supported in the 3.5 rules. "DMG p288: Adding New Abilities. A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword."

Wouldn't be surprised if there was. Which is why there's been discussion of a "reactive Temple" around here for ages.

 

Also, in an PNP game, the DM can tweak treasures to make sure the party occaisionally find things that are useful to each member of the party. "Hmm, Thorkill doesn't have magic weapon yet. I should probably incorporate a magic greataxe into the next session." That doesn't happen in a CRPG where the treasures are set (and in this case, set by the original module).

Crafting allows greater player choice in the characters they want to create. If you want to make a ranger that dual-wields hand axes or a farmer-turned barbarian who wields a scythe, you can do that in ToEE because crafting allows you to have magical versions of those weapons. Otherwise you'd be forced to either change your character, or use weapons they're not as good at in order to defeat monsters with damage reduction.

 

Hi Kalshane
The point I was trying to make is that that ease of casting in the 3.5 rules as implemented in ToEE is what makes the game so unbalanced (see the ongoing discussion on v5.6 game balance). It is worth noting that Icewind Dale II, which also uses the v3.5 rules does not allow any crafting at all, which makes it a real challenge.
The Royal Canadian

 

Hi Kalshane

 

I noticed some other things with the original bug I encountered, in that it also affects ranged touch attack spells (enfeeble and clumsiness being otherwise good low level choices against the giant I would think) and that it completely cleared up when I revisited the meadow to fight the giant having previously cleared the map of the skeletons, which suggests the bug is related to the skeletons rather than the giant.

 

I find that ToEE makes it too easy to craft certain magical items. You get some items much earlier than you should like Gauntlets of Strength +6. It would be better if you had to wait for a higher level before getting the higher level items. There are items that are level dependent. These are a little better balanced. The maximum number of extra attack dice is also an artificial cap on magical item power. If you have a +3 flaming frost shock axiomatic holy weapon attacking a chaotic evil creature, you only get 4 extra damage dice instead of 5. This means one of the enchantments is wasted.

IWD2 has no crafting. It also artificially makes it harder for you because your wizards do not learn spells automatically when they level. They have to find scrolls in order to learn spells. If you are level 20 and can only find level 2 scrolls, you're screwed. IWD2 does have more magical shops where you can find some very good items to purchase. They have careful placement of the few good magical items. Most other items you find are pretty much useless as items and have only value as cash.

 

I understand the arguements, but I stick with my initial response: if crafting makes the game too easy, don't do it. It seems silly to intentionally break the D&D rules to prevent people from doing something they can simply choose not to do. I definitely think if there was a way to implement the time requirements of crafting (and make there be some sort of penalty for taking too long dilly-dallying with powering up your equipment) that would be a fair way to handle it, but simply making it arbitrarily "harder" is not the way to go.