So What Do You Think of Jayfie and Corl?

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Gaear, Oct 2, 2009.

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What do you think of Jayfie and Corl in Co8 5.6.0?

  1. I like the new content and it should be kept.

    6 vote(s)
    50.0%

  2. I don't like the new content and the old versions should be restored.

    1 vote(s)
    8.3%

  3. The new content should be kept but modified in some way which I'll outline below.

    5 vote(s)
    41.7%
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  1. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Do you like the new portrayals of Jayfie (Agent Revealed quest) and Corl (Black Jay's Dead Sheep quest) in Co8 5.6.0? Please vote in the poll and comment at will.
     
    Gaear, Oct 2, 2009
    #1
  2. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    There's moments that feel a little railroaded and a skill check or two wouldn't feel out of place, but overall I really like them. Infinitely better than the original versions.
     
    Shiningted, Oct 3, 2009
    #2
  3. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Hi
    I agree with Ted that some skill checks should be appropriate, especially with Corl. For example you should be able to to do a "spot" to find the Hemlock either in the field or sticking out of his pocket (which becomes obvious only after you talk to the right people). You should also be able to either talk to Jaroo or ask Black Jay if he has talked to Jaroo to confirm that the sheep are victims of "foul play".
    I would like the workers at the castle to have their comments about Jayfie (".... we call him feefee") otherwise, logically, why would the players have any reason to suspect him. maybe there should be a dialogue option based on this. Something to the effect of "How have you managed to keep your job for so long, when you screw up as much as you do?". I was never able to get Jayfie to "confess" through dialogue (I ended up beating it out of him)
    The Royal Canadian
     
    The Royal Canadian, Oct 3, 2009
    #3
  4. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Well there actually is a spot check used (for the hemlock) when you talk to Corl.

    The castle workers were silenced so as to avoid that awkward 'we all say the same thing!' phenomenon, but the camp cook will still tell you all about Fee-Fee.
     
    Gaear, Oct 3, 2009
    #4
  5. Euangelion

    Euangelion Member

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    I'd like to see Corl's quest lead to something. I hate the "well, someone's leaning on him, but 'oh, well'" thing. Slaughtered animals, scared villagers should lead somewhere. I haven't tried the quest with the CG alignment to see if it connects more with Black Jay.

    Jayfie's now fine the way it is.
     
    Euangelion, Oct 3, 2009
    #5
  6. EdCon

    EdCon Member

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    Honestly the Black Jay/Corl quest needs some sort of hint...adding dialogue to Jaroo (even just a hint in the right direction) would work, or a skill check. Right now it's random whether anyone figures it out on their own. A good quest shouldn't require consulting walkthroughs to finish, IMO.

    Jayfie works as it is, in my view-my fighter was able to beat him up, which means the quest is solvable in at least one way without any help. A high level skill check or alternate route to solve it might be nice, but this one does have a solution that's clear.

    Just my 2 cents,
    EC
     
    EdCon, Oct 4, 2009
    #6
  7. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    There are actually two other ways to solve it, btw: diplomacy and bluff.* The brawl is going to have to be removed in order to restore the functionality of the Tolub brawl, unfortunately.

    There are hints ... the badger's input, and you can get a rumor now that says Corl has been seen wandering the fields by night. But we can add something more obvious.

    It does lead to Corl's eventual murder at the hands of Smigmal Redhand and company.

    I will attempt to implement TRC's suggestions about Black Jay and/or Jaroo's input regarding the dead sheep. Does anyone care if they have unvoiced dialog, or should I attempt to use existing lines? Ditto Black jay giving hints about Corl.

    e.g.

    "Do you know if Black Jay's sheep have met with foul play, Jaroo?"
    "Yes, my child!"

    "Do you suspect the teamster's son Corl, Black Jay?"
    "Yes!"

    * or I should say, a diplomatic route and a bluff-related route
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2009
    Gaear, Oct 4, 2009
    #7
  8. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Hi Gaear
    Regarding Black Jay's sheep, I personally don't mind "voiceless" dialogue. I would recommend something along the lines of the following dialogue with Jaroo.

    PC: Jaroo, Black Jay's sheep are dieing. Is it possible that they are being poisoned ?
    Jaroo: Yes, my son they are being poisoned. The sheep in Black Jays field show no sign of disease.
    PC: Do you have any idea who might be doing it ??
    Jaroo: No my son. Criminal investigation is not something I was trained in. You might want to talk to the Badgers. Maybe they can help you.

    By the way, I just started a new campaign, and had my party's druid (Spot: 9) talk to the teamsters son. There was no indication of a Spot roll in the die roll dialogue box, and the only thing the game said was that he "appears edgy"

    The Royal Canadian
     
    The Royal Canadian, Oct 5, 2009
    #8
  9. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Spot doesn't show up like a dialog skill, but it's there nonetheless. You didn't get it because it only becomes available after you've got some reason to suspect Corl. If you try it after the badgers have pointed you to him, you'll see sprigs of hemlock sticking out of his pocket.

    Thanks for the dialog - I may implement that verbatim. :)

    [edit]

    Sorry - I thought you meant the 'pick me' icons in dialog. I don't believe there are rolls for dialog checks; it just checks to see if the indicated skill is high enough.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2009
    Gaear, Oct 5, 2009
    #9
  10. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Hi Gaear
    The Royal Canadian
     
    The Royal Canadian, Oct 5, 2009
    #10
  11. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Hi
    What are the Diplomacy / Bluff skills that you need to get Jayfie to admit he's a spy ?? I have a rogue with 9 Diplomacy and 7 Bluff, and I got absolutely nowhere. If it takes more than that, my vote is to change Jayfie back. I know the vanilla scripting is hokey at best, but does it make sense to make to fedex quests that much more of a hassle ??
    TRC
     
    The Royal Canadian, Oct 5, 2009
    #11
  12. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    There are no bluff/diplomacy checks. Jayfie will not traffic with another guy because he's a male chauvinist and a womanizer. Try talking to him with a female character.

    If you're trying the diplomatic route, you're going to have to bribe him. If you don't have the coin, he won't play ball, but he'll at least tell you so.

    IMO it makes sense to have the Hommlet quests be at least mildly challenging and engaging rather than a simple click-by-numbers affair. I'm beginning to think that ToEE's use of the dialog skill icons is the most evil thing a developer has ever done, because now people don't seem to be able to function without them - i.e. you don't know what to do if you're not told what to do by the game somehwere. That's frankly very sad. :(
     
    Gaear, Oct 6, 2009
    #12
  13. VentilatorOfDoom

    VentilatorOfDoom Member

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    if I may make a humble request, try to keep the usage of massive slang or other forms of encrypted english comprehensible only by native speakers to the minimum. examples for too much slang are jayfie and wat (or rentsch?), you'll make it easier on us poor forenners.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2009
    VentilatorOfDoom, Oct 8, 2009
    #13
  14. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Hi V.O.D.
    Jayfie, Watt, and Rentsch are NPCs ( Non Player Characters ) that your party will possibly interact with during your adventures. Jayfie is the subject of a quest in Hommlett and Rentsch and Watt can be found in Nulb. You are correct that the use of slang should be kept to a minimum.
    The Royal Canadian
     
    The Royal Canadian, Oct 8, 2009
    #14
  15. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    I know you felt that Jayfie's use of the word "con" was slang-like, but what does Wat say that could be considered slang? He has a dialect, to be sure, but that was based on what Troika already established for him.

    IMO straight-shooter dialog is staid, unrealistic, and boring. You'll rarely find anyone involved in creative writing delivering lines like that in their stories, because for the most part people just don't talk that way except in extremely formal settings. :shrug:
     
    Gaear, Oct 8, 2009
    #15
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