This is my first play of the game, and I'm using the mod. My characters are level 11, on dungeon level four in the Temple. Anyway, I've been surprised at how useful my druid has been (mostly as a spellcaster, but her animal companion is handy, too, especially since I can just call another animal when one dies), but I was wondering about a ranger character. I've got a rogue/ranger - an archer - and she's pretty useless in combat. Of course, there are a lot of traps and locked chests, so the rogue part is useful outside of combat. But the ranger part doesn't seem to be good for much, at least not as an archer. She misses a lot, and doesn't do much damage even when she hits. Of course, if she was just a ranger, her animal companion would be as useful as the druid's, I suppose. (As a combined rogue/ranger, she has only half the levels of ranger as a full ranger would have.) But would she ever be any better in combat, with a bow or with spells? As I say, the druid has been a nice surprise. She has a great selection of spells, and I love the ability of changing any of them on the fly to a summoning spell. But I love using a bow in games, and that just doesn't seem too useful here (despite Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Many Shot, etc.). Has anyone here used a ranger in the game? If so, did you find him useful?
The question is: how many levels of Rogue do you have to how many levels of Ranger? Keep in mind that the best part of Roguing is sneak attacks, and with a ranged weapon that can only be done to flat-footed opponents. With the Archer-Ranger, I personally would not take more than 1 level of Rogue - evasion not stacking comes to mind. Loosing BAB, spells, hp, and companion effectiveness are the other drawbacks when leveling Rogue.
Go with rogue level first, then several levels of ranger, then add another level of rogue when the traps get too tough. The R/Rgr's specialty should be sneaking, you can uncover the enemies, then sneak back to the party, have the wiz lay down a fireball or web, then use your ranged weapons for the kills. Like any other character, you will need a great bow, probably will need to make one yourself, i have yet to find a good one in the game. Plenty of +1, +2 arrows in the game to last you a while.
For a Ranger- get her/him to level 2 at least and get the Rapid Shot Feat free (when choosing Archery Specialization) To make the Ranger Hit more- Make SURE your first TWO Feats are - in this order- Point Blank Shot, and then Precise Shot (which Requires Point Blank as a prereq). And when ever possible get the Ranger within Point Blank Range but not in combat an you will hitting like crazy. You NEED Precise Shot to offset the "Firing into Melee" rule- that, I believe, is what is causing you to miss so often now. A HUMAN Ranger can start out with a decent Dex and these 2 ffets and hit more often and ultimately do more damage than your other characters. For more damage- I Suggest a Strength bow- you can get one from the father of Amii after saving her.. or make or buy one eventually somewhere else. At higher levels 3 and 4 shots a round with an INSANE to HIT and +dmg from enchanted Strength bows and: Rangers can really ROCK.
I'd say take more Rogue levels than Ranger one. 4d6 is not to be sneezed at. With Rapid shot, and haste, you can get 4shots off per round. Take improved initiative and you will often get to *shoot first*, this means enemy "flat footed" = free sneak attacks. Make sure your rogue also has Strength as well as Dex so you can use Sling, or the "Mighty" bows from later that let you add strength to attacks This build is for human, 1 Rogue Point Blank/Precise shot 2 Ranger (Favoured Enemy, nice extra 2dps) 3 Ranger Free Rapid Shot/Improved Initative 4 Rogue 5 Rogue 6 Rogue Weapon Focus (Bow Sling etc) 7 Rogue 8 Rogue 9 Rogue (Whatever....maybe doge, or weapon finesse) 10 Figher Improved Critical (Bow Sling etc) Also get a Flaming Enchant on your bow for an extra 1d6 damage. YOu need fighter for the +8 BAB and the bonus Feat which allows you to take improved crit. You can also try this with FIgher 4, rogue 6 but you swap Weapn Spec (+2) for an extra 1d6 sneak, and you lose a lot of skill points. If you go mostly Ranger, other than the useless Many Shot Feat (game caps at 10 making this less effective), another favoured enemy, you lose a massive sneak attack bonus, as well as all the rogue abilites. Moreover, you can get another caster to cast, Strength Dex etc.............or even better you have Use Magic Device to self buff. Ranger also missed on Uncanny Dodge....you *need* that dex bonus to armor.
Good Build Brunt! At the end though- don't bother with Weapon Finesse, as ranged weapons already use Dex to hit, it would be a waste unless you are meleeing with a shortsword or Rapier and your Dex is higher thn your Str.
Thanks for the replies. Let's see, I've kept the rogue and ranger levels even (at level 11, I've got 6 levels of ranger and 5 of rogue). I've never seen a strength bow, since I never found the flower to save Amii, or any +2 arrows, and only a few +1 arrows (lots of silver arrows, but I'm don't know what they're good for - they're not needed for were creatures, apparently). Does a "strength bow" just add the ranger's strength bonus to damage? She's only got +1 strength (but very high dexterity). As I say, I've never seen one. And she never uses a melee weapon - ever - since she has plenty of tumbling skill to keep away from enemies. Note that my ranger DID get Precise Shot and Point Blank Shot right away, followed by Rapid Shot and Many Shot. She shoots three or four arrows at a time, unless she moves first, but she only hits with a few of them and rarely does much damage when she does. She's got Improved Initiative, too, I think, but at the start of a battle, she's generally too far away for sneak attacks. Compared to my spellcasters and my paladin, she's really pretty useless in fights. In most games, I use a ranger-type to scout ahead - and often peel away enemies one at a time - but that hasn't been useful in this game. I don't seem to have any problem just handling whatever I encounter with the group. It's nice to have a character to open chests and locked doors, but other than that, my rogue/ranger combination hasn't been much help at all. I know the unmodded game caps at 10, so I assume I must be close to the end (on dungeon level four of the Temple). And so far, this character hasn't added much to the party. My cleric and wizard both seem to be absolutely critical, and my paladin works well as a tank. My druid is also a surprisingly effective spellcaster, much better than I expected. Of course, none of these are multiclassed characters. Maybe that's the problem. But I NEED someone to disarm traps and open locks. I thought that adding some ranger to the rogue would make her useful in combat, but that hasn't happened. I think I would have been better off with a fighter/rogue combination (since I don't need a full rogue just for opening chests). Or maybe a bard would have worked better. I like having a ranger character in games. I just really like using a bow. But she does nowhere near the damage of any other character in my party. Her animal companion is also weak, since she's only half a ranger. And she has no useful spells. Really, she's been quite disappointing.
DON'T use Multi-shot- it adds negatives to the hit and doesn't give you any real bonus in this game. That will definitely help you hit. For more damage without a STR bow go with the enchantment of fire. That makes all the diff in the world. And yes, Haste. 4 Shots with 1-8 PLUS 1-6 (and the +1 arrows if you have them) is very sweet.
I make an elven ranger and make the rogue and ranger levels within one of equal. You have to to avoid the exp penalty. For human or half-elf, I would take fighter and ranger levels at near equal levels and rogue above that. Or rogue/ranger at near equal and fighter aove that.
WCG, I'm curious what your bonus to hit with your bow is. At 11th level, you should have a BAB of +9/+4, a high DEX (hopefully at least 18) should bump it to +13/+8, a magic bow should bump it another +1 (+14/+9), Bracers of Archery (cheap to craft at 11th level) should give you at least +1 (+15/+10), and Rapid Shot would give you a -2 (+13/+13/+8). I saw a lot of AC 23's on the fourth level but all you need is a decent roll (10 or higher) and you hit them. Are you taking any penalties to hit for something? Also, I wouldn't worry about the strength bow (aka Mighty Bow) with a STR mod of +1. The best way to up the damage with your bow is to give it extra magic qualities (fire or frost are good, so is holy). Sometimes a fire or frost or holy arrow will injure something that a normal arrow wouldn't. Greater Bracers of Archery also add to damage. Not that you're going to change characters now, but multi-class characters often don't work very well. I gave my ranger only one level of rogue and a high INT so he got lots of skill points. He focused on rogue skills (even if they were cross-class) and he probably does more damage than anyone else in my party (he's got a +16//+11/+6 BAB) and can still sneak and open locks and disable traps.
Regarding Manyshot: It is great to use this when you have readied a standard action vs. Spell so that you can disrupt an enemy caster. That extra arrow plus buffs will guarantee that the +20 Concentration cleric will not get his spell off. And that is what Taki does in combat. Single Move, Ready, Manyshot. Strafing and Sniping.
Here's a top tip when using a mostly rogue archer. Get a sorc/mage/bard to cast glitterdust on the enemy, pref sorc as he can cast it all day. It's only a level 2 spell, and it blinds the enemy, this set them *all up * for sneak attacks regardless of flatfooted, initiative status. With haste, you now get 3 sneak attacks per round I only play to level 10 since going beyond this takes the challenge out of the game, but it only gets better the higher the levels. At higher levels manyshot maybe be worth it.
If you prefere to have a straight ranger and no rouge in the party; you can allways get your wizard to cast knock (level 1 spell I think) which will open all doors and chests (apart from 2, in which case hire furnock for it then dump him) and negates all the traps. Ofcourse you have to have the spell prepared, or use a scroll.
