One of the features of the next release (5.6) will be an attempt to cut down on some of the dialogue redundancy of NPCs. Example: you go talk to Meleny's sister for the first time. She says "You have entered a house of sorrow, blah-blah-blah." You say "I'll be damned" or whatever. She says "My old man won't let me marry Marek, blah-blah-blah." You say "I'll fix it" and the conversation ends. Then if you go back without having fixed anything and say "You look sad," she says "My old man won't let me marry Marek, blah-blah-blah" and gives you the exact same routine as the first time like she doesn't remember you were already there talking about it. Well thanks to some scripting by Ted (I believe it was), we can stop some of that. What I need is for players to note these redundancies when they come across them and post about it here. Keep it simple - just report the obvious ones. You'll know when you see them, because the NPCs repeat their lines word for word. Please be specific as to which NPC and under what circumstances. You'll probably find that most of these episodes are associated with Hommlet and the early game fedexing that goes on there. This is a largely cosmetic endeavor and won't impact gameplay or anything like that, but it should make fedexing slightly less miserable. So thanks - the world at large will love you for your contributions! IDENTIFIED Woodcutter Captain Renton Widow Mathilde Filliken (Meleny's dad) Althea (Meleny's sister)
The Jenelda dialouge after the intial "solving" goes no where. The "i'd like an evening with Jenelda does nothing. There's a lot of no where dialouge in the game that doesn't help much of anything except take-up data space. The widow Mathilde is another example of a lot of dialouge that's not necessary. Wow a grandmother. You don't look over 30. Not very helpful. If it's an essential part of a quest/plot line, that's different. But I edit the dlg files to suit my own perverted purposes. Short and to the point, like Charlotte's. She's one of my favorite "recruits" anyway.
I tihnk Mathilde's adds a lot of flavour, the fact that you can chat about her grandkids etc if you are that way inclined - not just "hey peasant #4, where's my quest?" BUT its certainly not a conversation you should have word-for-word every time you speak to her, so it fits the bill. Thanks WizGeorge
I've started a list from my own research, located in the first post, where redundant dialogue exists. Also, I'll just say that I'm not particularly interested in eliminating any functioning dialogue chains in the game, whether they're lacking in zest or not. Hommlet in particular is already rather ghost town-like, and removing dialogue would make it even ghostly-er. Some of those dialogues could certainly stand to be spruced up, but that's another big job. Right now we've got a lot of lackluster dialogue that often gets repeated over and over again. What I'd like to achieve atm is to just transform that into lackluster dialogue that you have to hear/read only once.
Ok this is both a bit of dialogue research and bug hunting so I hope it helps out. I'm using the UK ToEE patched to 2, and Co8 5.5.0 beta. This is an ongoing dig around homlet, I've put in a lot of my own thoughts which you can ignore, just thoughts I had while going through this, well here is the first batch I hope some of it helps out, oh and sorry its so long. First dialogs wih All NPC's on homlet no quest taken. Gwynneth : 1. You can only ask for directions on he first dialog, all following dialogs dont have he option. 2. Cant ask for gossip unil you get the quest 'Cupids Arrow' Hroth Renton : 1. Same as Gwynneth 1. Mathilde : 1. Same as Gwynneth 1. 2. Can only ask about emridy meadows in the first dialog. 3. Doesn't put emridy meadows on the map, PC doesnt ask, maybe she doesn't know where it is! Filken : 1. Cant say "By Beory! It smells like manure around here" on first dialog. 2. You can ask to sell a barn even before you've spoken to Gwynnerth/Percy. Althea : 1. Mentions Marek having to convert to old faih but doesn't get logged as known, in log book. Meleny : 1. Where is roddy the man servant! 2. Maybe have a link back o conversation after "Im sad to hear about your mother. My Condolences". 3. If you've been told about "sneaking to the deklo grove" maybe it should skip in next dialog. 4. Same as above wih the "My hero! Im really enjoying talking to you..." line. 5. After asking for marriage there are no new lines wih filken! Elmo : 1. Same as Gwynneth 1. 2. Should the line "Go away, you drunken sot" be "sod" ? 3. If you exit conversation sraight away the next time you talk it goes sraight to "Hi dere! You change your mind about old elmo?" what mind? he hasn't said anyhing Yet! Jakk Borton : 1. Maybe need to add an exit line after first saying hi. 2. Doesn't mention getting bing healed at all! he just doesnt care! Furnok : 1. Maybe should show the diplomacy line once, on a following try it should go sraight to a 'give me potion and you can join' line. 2. Maybe he should not join group / help out if you rat him out to Ostler. 3. No menion of playing cards/dice even before osler quest, you'd think he'd offer his scam out all the time to new arrivals, then can say already cault him to ostler when he gives you the quest. Glora Gundigoot : 1. Maybe have the rumors quesion on first list of lines. 2. Maybe say how much a rumor coss. 3. Doesn't check if you have enough money for a rumor correctly, i manged to end up wih minus money yup im in credit! Zert : 1. Maybe should only show the moat house location for money / if he joins the party. 2. The dialog to show the location of the moat house has two exits and a travel immeditly, maybe 1 exit and a ask more questions. Spugnoir : 1. Its a little annoying he just tells you where the moat house is, maybe he should show for coin (god forbid!) or for some scolls, or joining the group. 2. Also same with emridy meadows, shouldn't it be a bit more of a challage to find these places! Marek : 1. Only have one chance on first dialog to hear about his problem. 2. When accepting to convert, the 3rd line - "I'll get it done. Perhaps you'll have more luck with children than your barren brother over there" before i've even spoken to his brother, ah but maybe cause i havnt seen any kids about! note : everyone in the weavers house is standing the wrong way around. well away from the door! Ploceus : 1. Cant ask about his work after first dialog. Moneir : 1. If you talk to him with a male it will skip his flirty dialog (thank Gawd!) then when you talk to him with a female you get a weird "Im sorry but we better not talk. Sumon gets upset easily" when I've not even upset her, oh well! Otello : 1. Question about thieves, when you havnt herd of any theft! 2. Talks about his wife Darless, but where is she! Kenter Nevets : 1. Same as Gwynneth 1. 2. Can only get the "Iam looking for lodging..." on the first dialog, watch out you might miss it! 3. you can get infinate uses of gather infomation, maybe a check once selected. side note : shouldn't nevets be a bit stronger in the CE game you have to kill him but hes more wimpy than the first guy you have to kill, well he is old i guess! Gister Noshim : 1. Same as Gwynneth 1. 2. Maybe should not allow an exit during his welcome dialog, if you exit then talk again you get weird questions about nothing you've heard about! Jaroo Ashstaff : 1. Can only ask about Terjon on first dialog and can miss out on text about Canoness Y'Dey. plus also miss out on "Those of the old faith seek a balance in all things..." Burne : He's trouble! 1. Same as Gwynneth 1. 2. In first dialog asking about trouble in labour camp doesn't add a mentioned log to log book. does in all following dialogs. 3. Can only ask for directions to the inn in the first dialog, damm noone wants me to get there! 4. Glora Gundigoot mentions that burne will tell you where the moat house is for a price, but he only does this if you get the beggars on the street, maybe it should cost more if you put them beggars on the street! 5. You can only get the line "Ah, so your an adventurer!..." on the first dialog 6. ERROR! This only occurs the first time you talk to burne. Doing the following options 3, 3, 1, 1 leads to the conversation you have after the moat house is cleared, thus you can skip the moat house and go straight to nulb YAR!! HURAY!! Can also get burne's puzzles too, yay fireballs at level 1! Rufus : 1. Same as Gwynneth 1. 2. Also can only get directions to the inn on the first dialog, its a conspricy i tells ya! 3. Again a free location of the moat house (same with burne i think) maybe you'd have to complete the Agent Revealed quest first. Pishella : 1. Can only view her "...Do you enjoy working for Burne?" line on first dialog. Tarim : 1. Same as Gwynneth 1. 2. when asking about the deklo quest and getting the mentioned log you can only ask about one of the Deklo questions either "What is Deklo exactly" or "What do you need deklo wood for?" once you pick one you cant ask the other question ever! 3. He says "I just hope jaroo won't mind to much" (killing spiders) but doesnt ask you to ask jaroo even though you can. Yvy : 1. Says "What brings you to the building site?" when she is stood in the labourers camp. 2. Can only ask the "...Do you work here? you dont look strong enough" on the first dialog. 3. You dont even get a tatoo for 5gp! or its somewhere i cant see it, opps! Laborer foreman : 1. can only ask about the construction site on the first dialog, easy fix remove exit in intro lines. Peasant Laborer : 1. Same as above. 2. You ask "...What is this camp here?" when your at the construction site. Mickey : 1. Can only ask "Can i buy beer here?" (yum yum) and "would not the local inn supply you with ample entertainment?" on the first dialog. Hubertus Gerstenbrenner : what a name! 1. Can only ask "Can i buy some of it here from you?" (beer) on the first dialog, no one wants me to buy beer! Cavanaugh : 1. Again only ask for beer on first dialog! 2. can get infinate gather infomation logs from the "I sense that may be a problem for you" when taking about living in the brewrey. Jarvis Hann : 1. Cant ask about bandit activity on first dialog, not that he gives you any info anyway! Nira Melubb : 1. If you dont ask the 2nd option on the first dialog you miss out on learning about nira coming from a city, then on the following dialogs you just ask "What city?" even though you dont know about it!
Thanks Boque, that's some good stuff. I'll be sure to check it all out in detail. I assume this is how it was intended by Troika. If we wanted it to be available at all times and not redundant, we'd have to re-do all the dialogue so it was like the badgers', not the "I'm a new adventurer in town and need directions" variety.
1. The 'building site' is being understood in its wider sense: the laborours are there for the building site, so is Yvy. 2. Yup. 3. The inconsiquential 5gp tattoo is a bit of RP - you don't actually 'get' anything out of it. Like buying expensive drinks in a CRPG: you rarely get anything from it, but the option is there.
I don't recall exactly, but can someone a little closer (I'd have to get there from a fresh start) check Rhiana's dialogue before and during the quest to get her or the lesbian to "work" for Madam? I seem to remember her greeting you as though nothing had happened, even after she runs away and you go pay for another pass. Even if I'm just remembering that wrong, she does have a bit of other weirdness: If you greet her for the first time (I didn't even bother talking to her in the above quest XD) and choose the second dialogue option (along the lines of "I'll be going now."), she suddenly gets named and thereafter addresses you by name, even though no names were exchanged. Assuming what controls the greeting and her being named instead of "Whore" is a flag or otherwise moddable variable, could the trigger for it be moved in a little so you actually trade names first? Incidentally, there are probably a ton of instances of this same issue with other NPCs.
There are. The reason is that all it takes for the engine to consider you as 'knowing' someone is to click on them once. Hence, Scarlet Brotherhood types are referred to as such when you mouse over them after one click, someone whose known name in the engine is 'backstabbing son of a bitch' will be called that after one click evn before they backstab you, etc. There are two conditions for each mobile, unknown and known. We can make that whatever we want for each, but I don't think we can stop the engine switching to known from unknown after one click. Workarounds are to not use a descriptive name for knowns in the case of generics like SBs (who will forever be 'Verbobonc Men' now unfortunately), but that's tougher for specific characters because you don't want them to be 'whore' or whatever all their lives. Another workaround would be to make sure they all get properly IDed in the initial dialogue, but that's probably not realistic.
