AI fixes / bug reports

I have been working on improving the AI of the ToEE monsters.

I was curious what improvements folks would like to see.

Please post any improvements that you would like to see added.

For instance I have already made it so that enemy spell casters will take 5 foot steps before casting so they can avoid AOO. And I have also fixed many of the AI scripting errors.

I have added skeletons that use reach weapons, and they take 5 foot steps before atacking to take advantage of their reach weapons and AOO posibilites. I also made it so Skeletons no longer get AOO when they are using crossbows.

But I am sure there must be other creatures that could use some AI improvements.

I am interested in abilites that creatures should have but don't... and I am also interested in what spells you feel the enemy spell casters should be casting but don't seem to use. For instance do you want enemy casters to start casting Silence, or Stinking Cloud, etc, etc...

If there is a a creature that seems too easy then post that stuff here and I will see what I can improve...

Just post whatever you would like to see fixed/added and I will take a look at it.

Also, I can do some bug fixes... I am not sure what bug fixes are still unresolved after the latest Co8 fan fix.

Basically just use this thread to post things you wish were better/fixed and I will use it is an idea/to do list.

Livonya

 

You work is greatly appreciated. My computer skill level does not allow me to mod; I thank you and your kind.

Rannos and Gremag are a little too easy to kill, compared to the rewards one gets from them. They seem to just sit there and don't use any of the magic bestowed to them.

Lareth is easy too; you have 5 or 6 people on one and considering the war just outside his door you would expect him to be more prepared for combat. I would expect him to be already enhanced (through buffs) that would reflect the level he is.

Ghoul paralysis should not only affect attack but movement after attack as well.

Allrem is too easy; why does he cast bless when there are other spells. In general, why do the priest not cast deadlier spells; fireball, flamestrike etc... I would expect to FEAR them, but I only see them as a obstacle in my path. Even Barkinar and Hedrack are not used to their full potential. Put another way, look at the PC's of the same level. Look at what they are capable of and go from there. I would ask, if it is possible, that magic items be boosted as the enemies progress.

If possible, more random encounters with NPC parties would be greatly appreciated. I found in my initial games the one NPC encounter very entertaining (and rewarding, depending). I would love to see more.

I will not go further now, as others may have things I have yet to think of, but again, thank you from us all.

 

Well, from my DMing experience, I can tell you throwing one spell-caster against a party of PCs isn't much of a challenge unless they caster is ridiculously higher level or else powers himself up in advance. In some situations this is understandable (like Lareth. Though my big question is why does he stay in his room? The lieutenant shouts to him that they're under attack. One would think he would come out to aid his troops. Maybe after casting a few buff spells on himself.) In my TT games I almost always give casters a few "bodyguards" so the party can't just run up and beat on the bad guy in a giant circle.

I would definitely like to see spellcasters pose more of a challenge, so long as they did so within the 3.5 rules. (Speaking of which, what's up with Falnirth and his regeneration? There's no explanation for it based on the items he has. It feels like an arbitrary way to make the fight tougher.) The big appeal of ToEE for me is it's the first game since the old SSI gold box games to actually use the D&D rules as written rather than changing them to try to wedge them into a real-time system or the designer's personal preferences. (I loved the BG series story and NPCs. Hated, hated, hated the combat interface.)

I can't think of anything else AI-related (other than gnolls and bugbears drawing AOOs constantly in their attempts to flank). In fact, I haven't noticed a problem with spellcasters drawing AOOs for spellcasting. Every caster I've encountered has casted defensively when threatened. The problem is immediately afterwards when they start moving that and draw AOOs.

Most of the bugs that bother me involve AOOs being triggered when they shouldn't be (held and sickened characters make AOOs) or not triggered when they should be (bugbears standing in the middle of my party and sucking down healing potions without any repurcussions)

 

I dont know if this is AI directly related, but i would like to see more ambushes take place, like some enemies hide in the shadows, if you fail a spot check then an ambushe take place. In general i just would like to use more of Skills in way to survive.

 

Well, the bandits outside the moathouse do the hide in shadows bit. And you get the giant frogs hiding under the water and the undead hiding underground, so it's being used if not everywhere.

Though does anyone know if the game actually makes use of Spot and Listen to detect hidden enemies? The manual says it does, but it seems like the hidden enemies always surprise my party no matter how high their Spot and Listen scores are.

 

Kalshane -

You can test this easily. Just use the console comands to level up a level 1 character at the moat house map. Level up to 10 give full skills in spot, listen, search and also make sure you get either sneak or an invisibility spell (invisibility moves faster) and then wader around near the concealed enemies. If they never appear until they see you then the engine is not using a skill check.

My belief is that engine does not use a skill check and concealed enemies are simply always concealed, but I could be wrong.

Livonya

 

Yes indeed, the bandits outside the moathouse is a good example, i never though about that, i allways see them.

 

A few AI fixes to add to the list

Here are some additional AI annoyances, some of which could be bugs, I'm not sure.

First, there is the problem over wandering monsters encountered while travelling. I have noticed that they always attack the left most character in the party line up. Exceptions to this are the bugbears who I've noticed always rush round to trip and smash the party's wizards or sorcerors. It gets really boring when random monsters always gang up, bugbears excepted, on the same first party member. Giant crayfish are so fixed on this that if the first party member runs off the crayfish will follow, even putting up with Attacks of Opportunity, instead of just staying and fighting the other party members.

Second, I have noticed, in respect to combat in the Nodes, if the party has summoned, using the Elemental Gems, or the Orb, a demon, or two, and sends these demons at some attacking enemy, or enemies, or even another demon (i.e. the Balor), sometimes the summoned demons do nothing but just stand there and get attacked. This can go on for many rounds. I do not know why.

Third, when initiative is rolled to commence a round of combat, isn't the combat order supposed to be re-rolled each round. I don't know the new 3.5 rules, so perhaps once the first round initiative order is established the same order is kept, round after round. However I remember in the older editions of AD&D, initiative was re-rolled with each new round.

Fourth, when in the Fire Temple, as soon as the battle starts, the Salamanders cast fireballs at the party, regardless of the fact that they might also kill the Fire Temple priest present at the time. So the priest gets killed by his own salamanders ! This can't be right, surely.

Fifth, if you approach a stationary group of monsters standing together in such a way that only one of the monsters spots the party, that monster alone seems to attack the party, the others just stand there. With this, one can slide up to a group of monsters and activate them one at a time, causing each monster to suicide by charging at the party while its monster comrades remain oblivious. Surely once one monster is alerted, after a round the other monsters also get alerted. This happens sometimes but not all the time.

Sixth, there is the suicidal behaviour exhibited by some NPCs, in Hommlet, or Nulb. An alignment difference will cause one to get angry as the party approaches (i.e. Brother Smythe) and this NPC goes into combat mode, even when the odds are suicidal against that NPC. What happened to common sense with these people ? Wouldn't prudence dictate that attacking suicidally for no apparent gain is pointless ? Not so it seems, even with reasonably intelligent NPCs, like many in Hommlet. These people need an AI fix to prevent suicide behaviour or something.

Seventh, Pirates and Bandits encountered while wandering always seem to attack. Why can't there be a chance to negotiate or hire these people. There is a quest in Nulb, where the Party can get a reputation boost with the people of Nulb (it is the Gar Quest) and this includes the pirates. After this I would expect any encountered pirates to be more friendly, or less hostile. The game does not differentiate here. Pirates and bandits always attack regardless.

Eighth, in a similar way, a Chaotic Evil Party with a character with high charisma should surely be able to negotiate, or cower, chaotic evil monsters encountered randomly, especially if the monsters are weak compared to the party. A Chaotic Evil Character wielding the Orb is supposed to be able to do this with all low level CE monsters, if my memory of the original game is correct.

Ninth, if a NPC makes an agreement to take full shares in the looting of treasure this should mean an equal share to the other members of the party, and the party should be able to enforce this through negotiation, diplomacy, intimidation, etc. I am sick of NPCs who are supposed to get an equal full share taking everything and the party cannot talk to the NPC and resolve the issue. As an example, the party, consisting of five PCs and one NPC, encounter six skeletons, all weapon equipped, and destroys them. Then a PC goes to each skeleton to loot its weapon. Each time the one NPC gets the weapon instead. The result: five PCs get zero, one NPC gets six. This is wrong and the party should be able to talk to the NPC about this and get justice.

Tenth, You can find several examples, mostly in the Temple, where guards patrol or guard an entrance to a room where other evil monsters and NPCs reside. Yet generally they never rush into the room to help if the room's residents get attacked (there are one or two exceptions to this however). Worse, when the rooms residents are all defeated and killed, and the party loots and then leaves, and then comes back weeks or months later the guards are still patrolling or guarding the room, even though there is no-one in the room to guard ! Surely these guards would then adopt a changed routine, say go somewhere else, or take up wandering randomly. This seems like a design fault, not a bug.

Eleventh, if the party casts a suggestion spell on a monster and sends that monster ahead to attack other monsters or enemies in such a way that these enemies are not aware of the party, then the suggestion-charmed monster can bash away at the unaware monsters and they do not fight back. They only activate when the party comes into range. At least this is my experience.

Twelfth, monsters do not seem to try to escape web spells; they just stand still till the spell wears off. Shouldn't they try to escape ?

Thirteenth, some monsters will try to attack spiritual weapons, even though one official patch was supposed to fix this up. I saw this in my own game just recently.

Fourteenth, why is it that companion animals, like attack dogs, or bears, always rush madly into the first group of monsters or enemies encountered and so often get killed in the first round ? Couldn't the AI be changed so they only attack on command ? After all they are supposed to be more intelligent than average and also mindful of protecting their masters, yet instead they rush off to their deaths at the first opportunity. One should be able to control them at least until the combat starts. Dogs and bears, for example can be trained and so should behave as ordered most of the time. The game does not allow this.

Fifteenth, the AI of all low intelligent or above enemies should be changed so that negotiation can occur occasionally. Low intelligent monsters/NPCs should be able to be tricked, cowed and manipulated more than higher intelligent monsters/NPCs and most monsters/NPCs should be able to recognise when it is in their interests not to fight the party (i.e the high intelligent NPC can see the party has a powerful magic sword or three and a spell caster and deduce accordingly that the best strategy is to feign a pleasant attitude rather than go suicidal). In this way negotiation skills will also become more useful and more important.

Sixteenth, I think the wandering monster rules in the game need overhaul. Wandering monsters should approach carefully, not suddenly appear around the party, especially if the odds are against them, and they have the intelligence to see this. In the current arrangement, monsters and NPCs do not use their intelligence, or wisdom, in relation to appraoching the party, and so all approach the same way. This seems to be very simplistic and unreasonable. It also makes the game less interesting. Also wandering monsters should be encountered wandering about the Moathouse or Temple while the party is also wandering, not just when resting.

So here are sixteen fixes. I hope this gives Livonya or anyone interested in improving the game some 'food for thought' on how to improve TOEE. Its a good game but its not a great game. Fixing these and other problems will change this I hope.

 

Third Edition (and 3.5) uses a cyclical initiative system. You roll once at the beginning of combat and that's it.

 

I am working on a complete AI over-haul, and I think this should be better once I am done. I am writing lots of new AI scripts so the monsters will seem way more unique. I am about 40% done with this now.

Again, this will hopefully be better once I am done with the AI over-haul.

I know why this happens. And it should be no problem to fix it. I have already fixed it so that enemy mages will cast Fireball ONLY if they can miss allies. It should be no problem to fix this as well.

I am working on this. Not as easy a fix as I would like, but I have a few solutions in mind that should help. I am going to attempt to add some sort of shout routine so monsters will alert their friends. I haven't started on this, but I have been thinking about it.

Hmmm... interesting. I see your point. I could fix this, just not sure if I will get to it soon.

This would be easy to do. Very easy actually. If I get time...

Could be done, would just take time.

 

Damn

Well, I was going to start playing, but if you're going to tweak the AI, I might as well wait just a little longer.

I know I shouldn't wait for the Ultimate Patched Experience, but I don't get a lot of play time, and I'm not one to start over from the beginning after making significant progress.

If you can accomplish all of this, then I salute your hard work as I can only code simple Perl scripts as necessary for work.

 

I would greatly appreciate the random encounters being more interesting. Extra hard monsters, strong parties, or even a Dragon would be nice. I find too many of the random encounters to be boring, derived and a nuisiance if only for the experience. Just a thought.

 

This is my next goal. It is a very easy thing to manipulate, and I intend to make the random encounters a LOT more fun and challenging.

Right now I am finishing my AI tweak... I am about 80% done.

The AI tweak will add the following changes:

1) Enemy mages/clerics will use buff spells BEFORE they enter combat. So when you encounter them they will already have some defensive spells running.

2) I have made new AI scripts for nearly every monster/NPC in the game.

3) Enemy casters will now use a lot of different spells, and in many instances they will not cast spells on invalid targets... for instance enemy clerics will no longer cast Hold Person on summoned animals.

4) Enemy NPC/Monsters will use Feats/abilities that they did not use before...

When this is done I believe that the enemy AI will be a lot more challenging... perhaps too challenging... we will see.

- Livonya