Standardizing Scrolls, Potions, and Wands

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by Gaear, Jun 19, 2008.

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  1. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Ouch - I just discovered that we have some higher-than-4th-level-spell wands in the game that shouldn't be there. Do you guys suppose these should be gotten rid of? Or does the engine automatically curb such crafting?
     
    Gaear, Jun 21, 2008
    #16
  2. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Okay, according to the SRD it looks like I shall have to remove wands of true seeing, dispel good, dispel law, spell resistance, call lightning storm, chain lightning, cone of cold, slay living, cloudkill, mordenkainen’s faithful hound, raise dead, summon monster 5, summon nature’s ally 5, teleport, greater command, dominate monster, feeblemind, mind fog, control plants, and righteous might.

    I'll also be adding wands for chaos hammer, flaming sphere, holy sword, ray of clumsiness, dominate person, hold animal, and darkvision.

    Speak against this now or never ...

    [edit]

    Okay now I'm confused ... the SRD seems to suggest that there are a very finite number of magic wands, something like 80 of them as opposed to one for every spell 4th level or lower in the spellbook. Does anybody know what the real deal is here? Does ToEE deliberately deviate from this for some reason?
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2008
    Gaear, Jun 21, 2008
    #17
  3. Greylan

    Greylan Established Member

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    I think the SRD just gives a list of more common wands. Removing wands for anything above 4th level, and adding other wands for spells 4th level or less will keep you in RAW no problem. Though with item creation, I've never seen an option for spells above 4th level -- are some of those higher level wands maybe something NPCs/Monsters use to imitate spell effects?
     
    Greylan, Jun 21, 2008
    #18
  4. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    Yeah, I would suggest they are there as loot, not for item creation: but if they are not meant to exist then I guess they shouldn't be there: BUT there is no harm them existing in the bowels of the game either.

    NPCs can't use wands, alas: they only use potions. Some potions have been created to imitate wands.
     
    Shiningted, Jun 22, 2008
    #19
  5. Half Knight

    Half Knight Gibbering Mouther

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    That's a cool idea.
    There's a few number of higher spells, but they usually belong to a notorious charcter.

    For example, Terjon could have one, or maybe two un-craftable wands, unique to the game. hedrack too, being an Iuz chosen et all...

    In any case, if you're feeling creative, you can turn the high level wands into staves...there are the usual red/green/blue gem staves, like the wands.
    So if you find that some wands have the same school, you can make a staff of various of those spells and delete the wands (and if you're feeling more creative, give the staff the adecuate color gem ;) ), thus they will be more useful, take less space, and make them more rare (if you have, let's say, 8 high level wands, you can do two or three staves) as well as restricting their use, since staves use the same number of charges than wands, but should be distributed between various spells instead of many uses for one.

    Of course, this would imply a bit more of work.

    Personally, i think that high leveled wands should be restricted. One of each, no more. Or take'm out. There's already too much power in the game, with the availble stuff and Allyx's craftable new stuff. :shrug:

    Btw...does darkvision works?
     
    Half Knight, Jun 22, 2008
    #20
  6. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    No, darkvision doesn't. I think Ax Thrower tried to attach light-sources to mobs (not just scenery like torches) but even if we did, we still couldn't do anything with Darkvision - well, nothing consistant imho, maybe ditch KOS flags and give any KOS-monster a single heartbeat script to check for the party, then factor in Darkvision in the scripting, but since the party can't use it, its a bit pointless and since we have had problems with LOS in KotB, I don't think it would be consistent. Plus you wouldn't have the 'torchlight interferes' stuff - dang Troika should have added light to this game! Not happy Jan...

    I like the staves idea, if it is RAW :)
     
    Shiningted, Jun 22, 2008
    #21
  7. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    IIRC wands can only contain spells upto level 5 in the RAW, (thus wands of Chain Lightning, which are in the game thanks to Troika, are in fact going against the RAW).

    I'm sure new staves can be added to the game, I've done it, and they work just fine. I have already added all the staves listed in the DMG that I found could be implemented within ToEE's engine, but there are infinate numbers of alternative staves possible in PnP.

    The staves themselves though are created with multiple spells in most cases, whereas wands contain a single spell multiple times, this makes the stave a much more specialized magic item designed (usually) with a particular problem in mind (the staves of fire and ice come to mind - both have vastly different spells in them, but both are most useful for taking out enemies that are weaker against that type of elements damage). Making a stave from scratch in PnP is a relatively easy matter, you get the componants, cast the spells, and get the working (or cursed) stave at the end. In ToEE however it would be more complicated, as the number of different spell combinations available (even if all staves had a set limit of 3 spells each - which technically they don't) the number of staves would be astronomical.

    Perhaps the people here can suggest which new staves should be created to combat this problem?

    (IE start a new thread asking for anyone who has a mind to, to suggest a name and powers for new staves, and the best of those could be added to the game's crafting options)
     
    Allyx, Jun 22, 2008
    #22
  8. Half Knight

    Half Knight Gibbering Mouther

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    Exactly my point.
    We could make staves from the wands that shouldn't exist (not for each spell). For example:

    Eliminate the wands of call lightning storm, chain lightning, cone of cold, and create the staff "Nature's fury" with those three. You'll have one powerful item indeed, but that can be wielded by only one charcter at the time, and it will have less charges (three wands equals triple charges). That would restrict a bit the firepower that's available atm.
    Maybe a small ability could be added (Nature's fury counts as a +1 staff, that grants ice resistance 5, for example)
    And a requisite it's a corny name, of course :D

    Cool idea :mrhappy:
    In any case, Gaear seem to have a knack at creating threads with great names. Maybe he could give the staves the names :p
     
    Half Knight, Jun 22, 2008
    #23
  9. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    I think I'm going to go with the 'wands for all 4th level and below, no 5th level and above' approach as some of you have suggested, being as that seems to most closely represent what Troika originally implemented.

    As for staves - neat idea, but I don't think I want to embark on that journey right now myself.
     
    Gaear, Jun 22, 2008
    #24
  10. wizgeorge

    wizgeorge Prophet of Wizardy

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    Does this mean the wand in the Orb chest has to go? Chain lightning is a 6th level wizard spell and the wand works great. I'd hate to see something that works good go out of the game because of a rules technicality. Keep it as loot. It may not be legal, but it works good.
     
    wizgeorge, Jun 23, 2008
    #25
  11. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    I suppose we could make that a stave, as HK suggests above. Either that or a wand of Lightning Bolt (7th) or something like that.

    I realize there are things to like about some of this custom stuff that was either original Troika content or added by us, but I think the rules should be hard and fast whenever possible. If wands with spells over level 4 simply don't exist in the world of Greyhawk according to the rules, they shouldn't just magically appear in the game.
     
    Gaear, Jun 23, 2008
    #26
  12. Cuchulainn

    Cuchulainn Windmill Tilter

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    Excellent idea on standardizing the colours Gaear, if you do need any more icons just let me know.

    I'm in favor of removing any wands that don't comply with the rules, although I thinck staves are an excellent idea.

    @Ted: If you still need icons that HK or Axe aren't working on just post them in the artwork needed thread and I'll have a go. Besides I did make you an urn so :p

    Cuchulainn.

    Edit--
    Is there anyway the we could script an icon swap once the item has been idedntified? How does the game keep track of if somethings identified anyway?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2008
    Cuchulainn, Jun 23, 2008
    #27
  13. wizgeorge

    wizgeorge Prophet of Wizardy

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    Sometimes I wonder what is modding for/to? Rules accuracy, faithfulness to the pnp module, the game as written and released. All the above. To comply with all the above a whole lot of deleting will have to be done, especially in protos and description.mes. Sounds like a big job to me. I thought Troika had WoTC advisors on-board to help with such things. Who knows? I'll play whatever is available or make my own.
     
    wizgeorge, Jun 24, 2008
    #28
  14. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    Part of it, WizGeorge, is probably the change from 3.0 to 3.5 halfway through. If the wands never show in-game, I personally couldn't care less if they are in the protos.tab somewhere and I reckon folks have better things to do with time, but to each their own :shrug: We all mod those things we feel strongly about.
    Seriously? I'll take a look :blush:
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2008
    Shiningted, Jun 24, 2008
    #29
  15. wizgeorge

    wizgeorge Prophet of Wizardy

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    I was thinking of all the stuff in protos that are console-only. I'm not a rules guru, but i'm sure a lot of the stuff isn't rules compliant or even part of D&D/Greyhawk. Like Excalibar and weapons that are over +3,etc. If the console is considered cheating, then why is all that stuff there? If the game is going to be "cleaned-up" so to speak, then all the non-rules compliant, non-D&D, excessive power items should go. Of course, the power-hungry maniacs will scream bloody murder and just use an older protos with all the goodies.
     
    wizgeorge, Jun 24, 2008
    #30
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