Scorching ray or acid arrow

Hi all,

Is it just me, or does the Scorching Ray spell make Acid Arrow almost worthless? At all levels it does more damage (4D6 versus a paltry 2D4 when it first becomes available). Both scale with level (SR gives an extra ray at levels 7 & 11, AA lasts for an extra round every 3 levels). Both spells require a ranged touch attack (so both can benefit from Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot), and neither allows a save.

As far as I can understand the only benefits from Acid Arrow are that it continues scaling all the way to level 18 (which isn't useful in TOEE without removing the level cap) and that it can damage monsters immune to fire. Is there anything else I'm missing?

Many thanks!
Riven

Currently finding that you gain experience REALLY QUICKLY in the Temple itself....

 

No, not really. SR it's a slightly better "damager" than AA, indeed

But, AA it's useful in some other ways:

-SR gives more rays indeed, but you have to make rolls for each, while a succesful hit from AA will make damage for sure each round (use true strike ) and leave you free to cast more mayhem.

-While SR could kill instantly a enemy spellcaster of course, AA would make him make concentration checks every round thus interrumpting HIS spellcasting

-There are many creatures with fire resistance (have in mind that those spells belong to the pnp version of D&D, which makes fire resistance fairly common), while acid resistance isn't that common.

Personally, i prefer the sonic spells, since almost no monster would resist it. I'm thinking to add the many "orbs" to the spell list (fire, cold, acid, electricity, sonic), since they'll make a great addition to versatility

 

I agree SR is better overall because you don't wait for the damage and you get more of it anyway all the way up to very high levels, when finally AA catches up - but still takes forever to do its damage.

SR requires more rolls, but then again you GET more rolls. AA is hit or miss and SR is a bit more reliable when you go to higher levels. I like that, myself. Save or die isn't my cup of tea.

But for my money the biggest thing in AA's favor are secondly that acid resistance is very rare, but firstly that it bypasses spell resistance, which SR does not. This isn't enough to save it, but it is huge. A sorc should have it as a utility spell for those instances where he's up against heavy spell resist.

 

Basically, have one AA memorized just in case along with manymany SR :mrhappy:

I usually use True strike. Maximized at high levels, you'll be making damge for sure, and it's also cumulative with more arrows.

In any case, AA it's pretty obsolete sometimes, it's one of the first spells created so many later spells are simply better, but AA it's a classic from D&D, like magic missiles.

 

I rarely use either. Unless I'm fighting undead I'd MUCH rather have an extra Glitterdust spell available. In general, damage spells are far less useful to a Wizard or Sorcerer than battlefield-control spells.

(if I AM going to be fighting undead, I generally prefer Scorching Ray)

 

To be honest, i didn't use them much neither.

In fact i rarely use a wide variety of damaging spells. I prefer to rely on strategy, and character combat roles.

Usually, i just memorize one or two of the same damage spells (empowered magic missiles, acid arrow, fireball or lightning bolt, empowered ice storm ), having in mind spell resistance and area effect/type of damage. Rarely memorize electricity spells since it's pretty useless (lots of resistance), but call lightning in a druid it's a must have.

And then mostly paralizing or versatile spells : lots of true strike, grease, glitterdust, web, knock...i like phantasmal killer and ray of enfeeblement. And of course, lots of scrolls of the minor damagers: the frost and acid cantrips.

i leave the backup for the bard, since their saves are pretty easy, their spells are worthless against enemies, but very useful in your party (remove fear, good hope...).

In fact, usually my main spell damager it's the druid. Empower spell, or maximize.

 

Its funny, I actually used bards in most of my runs through the TEE and thought they were awesome. If you have good charisma, spell focus and greater spell focus on enchantment and spell penetration, the bard is a real life saver, and not just in a support/buff-provider role (for which druids and clerics are a lot better suited). His saves are as hard to resist as anybody's... He is also a natural choice for a 'face'.

I've succesfully used the fascinate function on all sorts of heavyweights, including a couple of boss-demons in the nodes. I've charmed and dominated my way through hordes of enemy tanks (fighters often have very weak will saves...). And of course, inspire courage is like a permanent bless, only better (adds to damage!)...

I dunno. Maybe you're playing bards wrong in your game...

 

Another point in Scorching Ray's favor. . . Web a bunch of baddies, cast a Scorching Ray on one of them, and they ALL take fire damage! Fireball is a little better for this, but if you're out of Fireballs. . . I can't tell you how many times those annoying "split under damage" oozes were done away by Stone Spikes, Spike Growth, Web, Scorching Ray, Fireballs, and Produce Flame. . .

 

Cast Web on your enemies, then hit one with Scorching Ray, and they will all take damage. The Web will be gone, so have someone ready to cast web again. I usually have a Druid casting Produce Flame, followed immediately by a Mage recasting Web. This even works against those annoying Shadow attacks early in the game.

On the other hand, Acid Arrow seems to be resisted less often. I once used it to finish off a Balor who wouldn't take the hint and die.

 

By the time you've got TWO second-level spells the amount of damage this is going to inflict is going to be minimal. Even pathetic. In fact I've used this tactic to ESCAPE Web spells at second level, using a Druid's Produce Flame spell. It's rough but survivable when used on my own 2nd-level Wizards, so what's it gonna do to brigands and zombies with 20+ hit points? Not much. In fact you're better off using just the Web (or Entangle) spell and then taking out the opposition with bows, crossbows and slings.

 

I prefer melee, so I use the Web/Scorching Ray and/or Produce Flame to soften up a rough group before I go in. It may only do six points of damage, but that's six points of damage to groups of sometimes ten enemies, for only two spells. Plus, it keeps the enemies at bay while my melee attackers get buffed and whatnot, then can go in at full strength. Certainly not a tactic to win a battle in one fell swoop, but not a bad way to spend the first round or two of combat.

 

Exactly. If you are low (3-4) level and need an area effect spell, the Web - slings and arrows - Produce Flame - (IMMEDIATE) reWeb - slings and arrows - etc. will keep them held and dying for a while. You can melee those who escape. This kind of tactic is better against mobs (goblins, kobolds, pirates, undead [esp. shadows], etc.) than against strong singles like trolls, who usually walk through webs anyway. Keeping mobs webbed cuts down on those nasty flanking attacks. Try it in the orc cave. Just one Web - shoot - burn will whittle enough hit points to keep your party from getting mobbed because you can often kill them as they get to you, not 2 turns later.

This tactic is why I usually have all my characters carry missile weapons at low levels, even if they have no particular skill at it. Plus, in KotB, the guards aren't on your ass all the time. The downside is that you are more vurnerable to those random encounter close-in ambushes. But then, you just change weapons and attack w/o having to move much.

 

Just to get this straight, can you actually web a shadow in ToEE? Or do you mean using the web as a flameable area of effect spell?

 

If they fail their saving throw, they are webbed and immobile. I was surprised too. This gives time to cast magic weapon, magic missile, etc., and retreat the characters who have no magic weapons.

 

Wait a minute - Acid Arrow bypasses spell resistance? Why does it do that? That makes it very desirable indeed!

Are there any other spells that bypass spell resistance automatically?

Cheers,
Riven

Fireball is GOOD!