Odd Paladin Character Creation Notes

Hi Ted
I thought I had posted this earlier, but I don't see it, so here it is again. I just started another game, this time including a Paladin in the party. So far I have noticed three things about my party's Paladin that have me going Hmmm.

1.) When I created the ( Human ) Paladin, I was able to give him the feat "Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword" even though he did NOT have the feat "Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword"

2.) The Paladin has a Holy Symbol in his inventory. That, in and of itself, is not a big deal, but I don't remember my (few) Paladins in vanilla ToEE having Holy Symbols, and Clerics (who SHOULD have Holy Symbols) don't have Holy Symbols.

3.) In an effort to get into the Thieve's Guild, the Bard in the party "lifted" items from two different houses in the Keep and the Paladin didn't "Fall" .

TRC

 

Ted might correct me in this, but the symbol is there to allow the paladin to use his (fixed) detect evil ability. At least this was so in the original version of the demo. It takes a spot in the inventory, but the ability should be used from the radial menu.

 

Hi Mat
I'm not 100% certain that a Paladin NEEDS a Holy Symbol to use Paladin Detect Evil. I don't ever recall reading anything to that effect in any of the Players Handbooks ( I must confess, I haven't read the 3.5 rulebook ). I do remember that Clerics, as far back as Version 1.0 ( aka the original Advanced Dungeons and Dragons ), DO need Holy Symbols in order to Turn Undead and Cast Clerical Spells. I also find it interesting that in ToEE, a Paladin will Fall from Grace just by being in the same party as someone who enters the Drinking Contest, but in KoTB, a Paladin who associates with a Rogue/Bard who "borrows" items from rooms in the Keep, suffers no penalty.
TRC

 

Hum, that should be checked.

Exactly. In vanilla, detect evil didn't work.
The fix for that in KotB is to have a Holy symbol.
So, put it simple: you need that item to cast Detect Evil.

Ted must be working on that, or the "lifting" isn't considered stealing.

 

I don't think the Bastard Sword thing is a bug (works the same way in regular ToEE). Rather, Exotic Weapon Proficiency for Bastard Sword or Dwarven War Axe is just to let you use them one-handed. Otherwise, you can still use them without penalty (and pick Weapon Focus) as two-handed weapons.

 

Hum, i think you're right.
I can't see why wouldn't give you the bonus if you use it two handed. :yes:
Didn't thought on that

 

Hi Folks
Thanks for the info regarding the Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword issue that I mentioned. Jadefangs analysis is correct. I just did a quick test and created a Human Fighter with the "Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword" and "Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword" Feats. This fighter can use the Bastard Sword one handed or two handed with no penalty for having a shield ( one handed ) or a buckler ( two handed ) on the "off hand" On the other "hand", the Paladin cannot use the Bastard Sword one-handed, and suffers a -1 to hit penalty when using a buckler on the "off hand" . By the way, I "finished" the first Thieve's Guild quest, and the Paladin fell from grace upon the quests completion.
TRC

 

It is. I created a new fighter with a STR of 12 and could take Exotic Weapon Proficiency but couldn't select bastard sword nor dwarven waraxe but after switching the STR to 15 both were available.

On a side note the description in ToEE states you need a STR of 13 or higher to take the feat but doesn't say that it's just for those two weapons.

 

I've given EWP: Bastard Sword to nearly every one of my (CG) clerics in the regular ToEE campaign (for what I think would be obvious reasons) In the case of those already proficient with the bastartd sword all it does is allow its one-handed use. For those who aren't proficient it does both ... provides proficiency and allows its use one-handed. Unless things have changed in KotB ...

 

Speaking of weapon proficiencies, what is the prof. for the monk spade? I didn't see it on the feat association index (unless I'm just blind) and I was surprised my monk wasn't auto-proficient with a name like that.

 

You'll see it if you take the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat.