NPCs and what to do with them...

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by Zebedee, Feb 24, 2008.

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  1. Zebedee

    Zebedee Veteran Member Veteran

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    Ah, that would explain things. Thanks Kalshane.
     
  2. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    Its a pretty small file, yah: when we are expanding to lvl 20, that will be an issue with fighters (too many feats) and spellcasters (too many new spells). Otherwise? Doesn't leave too many folks - maybe Wonnilon and Elmo, a few others. People say Wonnilon has already got his working due to an oversight - anyone had problems with him? Anyone recruit him?

    Its definitely worth testing though. I was going to implement this for the KotB Demo but had too much other stuff on my plate. But a lot of the feats in the levelup.tab are redundant (the clerics get things like 'cast spontaneous cure' which they should already have) so if it is given a good spruice it may just work. And I agree wholeheartedly with Gaear; we should fix the weird choices and make it better.

    Regarding background / motivations: we could do Lareth, since he has an enormity of additional unvoiced dlg as it is, if I am not mistaken. The others would look 'tacked on' indeed unless we are very imaginative. Furnok already has a 'goal', to make enough to retire. Meleny talks about 'home sweet home' at one point, while Fruella bitches about owning a house with dirt floors and not cleaning it (long time since I looked at their files) so yeah, there is grist for the mill :)

    EDIT: O and NPCs with Prestige classes ain't such an impossible thing either :)
     
  3. Half Knight

    Half Knight Gibbering Mouther

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    I've recruted him a few times.
    Tho i don't understand the question you ask, i didn't noticed anything strange (nothing special neither, besides being a quite good charcter)


    Damned rogues...my jaw dropped when he said "i have enough to retire. Ta ta suckers!" .
    I must admite that it was a great detail.

    Not at all. An Assassin it's just a rogue with more abilities. If you take one of the charcters and add a few extra abilities (spells in this case, and maybe a poison vial spawning from time to time), they're relatively easy to do. You can change the feats of a warrior, add the sneack attack and spells, and get a Blackguard, etc etc.

    But if that means that all of Kalshane's work would be ruined (or he would consider it that way), it doesn't worth it.

    Still, KotB it's another matter... :p
     
  4. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    Prestige classes by the rules :p
     
  5. Half Knight

    Half Knight Gibbering Mouther

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    Really?
    Cool :cool2:

    I thougth that wasn't possiblewithout some cheating. No more speaking then. Let's not spoil the surprise ;)
     
  6. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    Indeed. We might even get this thread back on track ;)

    So does anyone here - anyone at all (general public included) - object if I set up the NPC followers in the game along the lines of KotB, where you can change / swap / customise simple things like clothes, but valuable weapons have to be bartered for? Options regarding NPC 'looting' - getting NPCs to receive their fair share of money etc - are still up for debate, it seems.

    What about if we leave the 'sell stuff when you get to a merchant' part of Humble NPCs disabled, but re-enable the 'loot money' element? If we can?
     
  7. krunch

    krunch moving on in life

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    It sounds like a poll is a good idea.
     
  8. erkper

    erkper Bugbear Monk Supporter

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    As a member in good standing of the general public aka unwashed masses, I think this is the best method of handling NPC inventories I have seen over various games and mods - (ToEE w/ or w/o Humble NPCs, BG/BG2, NWN, etc.)

    Not so keen on NPC looting, but I do understand the desire to make the NPCs more like autonomous individuals, so I would not object. Though I would wonder how that would affect the quirky NPCs like Spugnoir, for example.
     
  9. Old Book

    Old Book Established Member

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    I don't like it.

    I'd like to see NPCs refusing to part with their signature magic items; Elmo shouldn't give away his magic armor and weapons, Furnook shouldn't give up his ring of invisibility, etc. Maybe you should be able to buy them, but even then the prices should be high.

    However, I don't want NPCs taking a share of the gold unless they're actually able to spend it on something. The party is going into dangerous situations all the time; an NPC who carries a load of gold but won't upgrade their inventories makes just as little sense as an NPC who'll let you strip him naked, kick him out and sell his stuff.

    Similarly, I'd like to be able to keep moving potions, scrolls and non-signature enchanted items around the party, PCs and NPCs alike. Otherwise equipping NPCs becomes a real pain.

    If, however, we can find a way to get NPCs to make buying decisions that make some kind of sense, using their own gold, I'd be OK with them keeping their shares in their packs instead of in the party bank. I'd still want to be able to move items around.
     
  10. Kalshane

    Kalshane Local Rules Geek

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    No problem. :)

    If you guys got that figured out, bravo. I'd be happy to see it in action.

    As far as NPCs go, even with Humble NPCs, I very rarely use them. The NPCs aren't interesting enough, and the weird interface issues they cause (unable to activate doors/ladders/stairs, unable to loot, unable to initiate conversation when ever the NPC is the closet party member to the target and the whole party is selected) make them a far bigger PITA than they're worth.

    I'm also with Old Book in saying that the NPCs taking a share of the loot and then hording it is also annoying. You end up spending your share of the money to make the entire party better, including the NPCs, and meanwhile they sit and collect a fat sack of gold.

    If you're going to implement something where NPCs won't part with treasured items (at least not without trading for something better), I'm totally cool with that but in that case it would be a good idea to implement something to avoid the party whacking the NPCs and taking their stuff. At least the ones from civilization. If the PCs left town with Elmo, and then come strolling back in a fear hours later waving his axe around with Elmo nowhere to be seen, the populace of Homlett should get suspicious.
     
  11. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    Bad example (Elmo keeps his gear secret, wearing his magic chain only after you have bought him the normal stuff so people don't realise he has it) but I see your point. I also agree in theory that NPCs should have to buy their stuff and spend loot money: but implementing it? Thats another thing altogether...

    So what are our options? Old Book has put forward the idea that NPCs get to spend their money on specific items, or the house in Nulb (if Fruella or Meleny paid for that as part of their dowry or something, that would be pretty cool). What other options are there for NPCs using their money?
     
  12. Old Book

    Old Book Established Member

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    More an extension of the specific items idea, but:

    1) The first time talking with Jaroo, Mel could donate 10 gold to the grove.

    2) The first time talking to a scroll seller with Spugnoir in the party, he could purchase an otherwise rare scroll. For him, that could be repeated a few times. Ideally, this should only happen with spells he doesn't already know, but it's still in character either way. "You never know when you'll need another Stinking Cloud."

    3) When talking to a barmaid, Elmo could buy a round of beer (annoying, but funny). A dialog option should allow the player to turn this off after the first event.

    4) Ronald could purchase magic arrows from the cabinet maker, and scrolls of cure serious wounds from Calmert or Mother Screng.

    5) Fruella could buy jewelry from the gem seller.

    As a dialog option, it would be nice if PCs were able to ask NPCs to chip in money to pay for Healing or Resurrections.

    How the NPC reacts should vary. Mel should be happy to pay to raise a dead PC, but might balk at paying for healing or potions. "But my love, I can heal you! Don't you trust me?" Talking Fruella into paying for anything she isn't using herself should be almost impossible without a high Diplomacy or Intimidate.

    Also, much as I hate to say it, NPC crafters should reasonably expect to be paid extra for Crafting magic weapons and items. However, that would be tough to script. Probably better to just take control of level up away from the players, and not allow NPCs to develop crafting feats beyond Scribe Scroll.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2008
  13. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    This is a very specific one that can and should definitely be implemented (imho) if we have NPCs looting.

    Otherwise... one way to do some sort of dialogue thing is with the 'excuse me, this customer was ahead of you' moment. It automatically interrupts bartering for the NPCs to do their stuff, so if we script what that stuff is, it should be doable. Not the Spuggy / scrolls idea though - can't check what spells NPCs have from script. Liv spent a long time trying that.
     
  14. Old Book

    Old Book Established Member

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    Thought that might be the case.

    Sorry to hear that, but not surprised. What about having him make a one time purchase of a wand or staff? Or offensive spell scrolls, not to learn, but to use?

    "Look, you hired me as an expert spell caster, and I'm telling you, there's always a need for more fire balls."
     
  15. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    Ok, if we can implement buying things from NPC's as a way of removingloot wich has outgrown it's usefulness, can't we also sell things to NPC's that we'd like them to use?
     
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