The Really Big Class Discussion Thread

Interesting discussion, I personally like a mage/druid. Nothing clears a room like spike growth/grease. Most of the time what gets to the front line falls to ground, bleeding out.

 

wouldn't that be more likely to leave it littered with corpses, rather than emptied?

 

No, it typically empties the room. The damage usually doesn't occur until they stop moving or trip or do both. They usually make it to the choke point, where they do start to pile up. The Tactic pretty much clears the room of all none archers.

 

I like Spike Growth, but Spikes Stones kinda sucks because it ain't "Dismissable" in TOEE. Right now I'm playing with a cleric and druid as my only casters and use Spike Stones, but the enemies who are content to stay in their new spikey surroundings are a PITA because I don't have any fireballs to send in there after them.

Is there a way to make Spike Stones "Dismissable?" It is in D&D 3.5.

 

A few combinations everyone is probably familiar with, but ill post for sake of newer players.

Fighter 2/Rogue X
-It takes a beating in the skill department, but gets you going with first level two weapon fighting, finesse, and (if human) the bonus feat goodie of your choosing and weapon proficiencies if you decide to get crazy with both hands. I'm partial to improved initiative, and the combat tech chains (Int based ones).

It's essentially an assassin, or a battle rogue. Weakening the skills and slowing sneak attack, but we all know how starved for battle feats non fighters are, and the two bonus ones effectively put you 6 character levels ahead of where a straight rogue would be. And who likes playing a dual wielding rogue from 1-3 that can't dual wield? Seems blasphemous to me.

Fighter 4/Wizard X
-This actually makes sense for a lot of reasons. Yes, you just built a bard...but one that can actually cause damage. This game supports the standard gish in more ways than I initially thought. The elven shield, elvish chain mail are godsends, and the mithril chain is a good replacement depending on your dexterity. Grab proficiency in bastard sword, and go to town with a sword/board character who can later use the artifact blades.

Here's the thing people shy away from with casters who are behind levels. "What about the lowered DC? Duration?". That's nonsense.

What I say is: Use spells that don't give saves? Utility spells? "Aim" your spells at people who will fail them? You don't always have to brute force every battle in the game.

If you find yourself (gasp*) woken up by 6-8 Hill Giants in the lower level of the temple, your 4th level fighter/6th level wizard can do all sorts of mean things that will ease the burden of your real casters. You could for example drop grease, web, sleet storm, glitterdust (example of knowing your target, meaty monsters bomb will saves). Up against some wizards or otherwise stationary targets? Drop a lightning bolt on their asses.

It's all about knowing your save affinities, people. Will against dumb targets, Reflex versus slow ones, fort versus weak ones. Then your DC is probably more than adequate and your main spellcasters can do much meaner things with their infinite arcane power, and not waste time debuffing or disabling targets. Or hasting (no save required, casting level is meaningless by the time you get it!) your party while the sorcerer casts "Kill everything level 9". I think that's generally worth the tempo, since every round is so valuable and you don't need your doomsday conjurer wasting time buffing your party. And just because your fireball doesn't do as much damage as the pure sorcerer's, it's still a fireball. Damage is damage and another source of it is never a bad thing, when used carefully.

This build also has 4 levels of Fighter HD and combat abilities/feats, so he's not going to be a chump in battle, but obviously a support character who can fill in gaps where needed.

Barb 1, Sorc1, Barb X, Sorc whenever you run out of usefull barbarian levels.

I like this one a lot. You obviously can go any way, as it's just a dip for a few useful first level spells, but I think it synergizes. Barbarians generally function in lighter armor, and you can cast in that reliably. You can't do stuff when raging, but you want your buff up before you go nuts. Notable spells to splash, Enlarge person, shield (hello two handed weapon) and true strike. (Power attack is a lot of fun with this spell, along with your barbarian strength and rage, and your two handed weapon. You took a two handed weapon right? What kind of barbarian are you?!)

I've had arguments with people over the usefulness of splashing one single level of spellcaster, but those three spells pretty much make up for it. True strike is absolutely nuts when you need to drop a deathblow on something that's threatening your party and you have at least one turn to prep for it. It's also personal target, so you can't just have your party wizard cast it on you. Same with shield. Those spells really shine in the hands of a dangerous melee warrior.

I realize my builds are mostly arcane splashes, but that makes a more fun character I think. Having options is always good times.

Then there is always the Paladin2/SorcX for divine grace. It's fun, and you get minor combat abilities out of it but it does put your spellcaster back some levels and you only get better saves (which i've found aren't as necessary as normal table top D&D). A well balanced party can handle all the saves imposed on you in the game.

That's I got for now, but generally single classed characters are better in this game i've found. Multiclassing is fun to mix things up though...if only we had the staple prestige classes like Eldritch knight, Mystic Theurge, Daggerspell mage..

 

Myself, I do not care for XP loss when characters do not raise levels closely together as they gain experience. So, I tend to avoid multiclassing.

 

that depends on how much crafting you want to do - when your fighter/rogue/sorcerer is being held back because of multiclassing, your wizard can hold himself back with crafting to keep them at the same level.

 

I've found my ftr/wiz to be tremendously lethal at lower levels, ie ftr2-4/wiz 1.

After 2 or 4 lvls of ftr I take mostly wiz lvls the rest of the way, but think about a lvl 4 fighter with a reach weapon (which are far more deadly in toee than they are supposed to be) or other two handed weapon with good str doing 1.5 str dmg while enlarged (additional str, weapon does dmg of larger size category, plus you have the reach to match an ogre), with power attack... all those add up to tremendous dmg output but big at hit penalties, right? Not if you take a round to cast True strike, a lvl 1 wiz spell that gives you +20 to your next attack. So at those lvls you get an attack that's a near auto hit with anywhere from around 3d6 +7 to 3d6 +10 dmg every other round if you have several true strikes ready. That's a boatload of dmg without enchanted weapons, etc, at those lvls... my ftr/wiz is out damaging my main warrior class who uses a sword and shield. Don't forget a brooch of shield or a lvl one Shield spell grants protection that's as good as a tower shield as well, while letting you use a two handed weapon or a reach weapon...

With a reach weapon, enlarged, combat reflexes and power attack turned down or off, you can stand in a good spot and literally mow down enemies that approach with 3 or 4 hard hitting attacks per round for free as AOO's! All while having AC as good as the sword and shield guy thanks to shield spell or brooch.

 

Humans, half elves and favored classes, my good man...

-Side note

Do you guys ever just go Gestalt for the hell of it? I'm composing a party of ALL multi classing, magic users right now and I just know this is going to be a memorable party. Sorta like the idea of a high magic world, where you have your Healer/Beatstick, Wizard/Fighter, Rogue/Illusionist (great synergy!), Druid/Sorcerer or a straight Bard or Ranger, since they are basically genuine multi-class classes.

I had an old party where I had the Fighter4/Wizard X, Necromancer, Rogue 5/X Illusionist (Assassin fluff ), Straight cleric and a Chainer.

Now the whole party wasn't magic capable, but I generally chose bad class choices for everyone..but it made the game a lot of fun.

 

I favor all caster parties, but I wouldn't bother heavily multiclassing a Druid or Cleric; they already have solid weapon and spell skills. A Dwarf cleric or a Druid is probably the closest you can get in 3.5 to the old fighter/mage multiclass.

 

I'm currently playing a semi-non-caster party. The only caster is Meleny the Druid. The rest of the party consists of : 1 Halfling Rogue, 1 Human Fighter 4/Monk X, 1 Half-Elf Monk

It's interesting to play a party with very limited magic users. I really only recruited Meleny for Crafting. I was gonna multiclass the rogue to monk also, but forget the lawful alignment requirement. Oh well, next time...

 

Oh I agree, but it's for fun..not power

I've already done the halfling pure rogue, pure greatsword half orc barbarian, pure cleric of pelor, pure wizard, chainer fighter party and it makes the game too easy. My old rogue killed the Balor in two turns, with two ice daggers and some buffs set up ahead of time.

zuluwarrior94 - Healing wouldn't even be difficult, because that's really the only thing casters bring to the game the other classes cant... but it would be a pain chugging potions before, during and after every battle.

Let me know how that works out though, it sounds like fun. I'm all for party gimmicks.


Little update on my new Gestalt party

Acheron the CE Drow (elf with drow gear) Fighter 4/Wizard X
Durahan the CN Half Orc Cleric of Gruumsh X, Barbarian 1 or 2 (Can't decide how far to go yet)
Rhea the CG Elf Ranger (I count rangers and bards as multiclass classes)

And i'm not sure where to go from there.

I'm thinking a Halfling Rogue/Bard, Dwarven Fighter/Druid, and possibly a straight wizard....but to limit it's functionality, ill go sorcerer and essentially specialize in a school that isn't evocation. Limit myself to taking only one school of magic and then getting the spell focus stuff.


What do you guys think?

 

I don't get C/G and C/E being in the same party. There would definitely be some comedy relief in that party and those two would always be ready to kill each other or, maybe, forget to help each other.

 

i almost always multiclass, seeing as the lvl cap on the mod i play is 20, and casters barely get any spells past 5th lvl because they can only add so much within the constraints of modding.

i usually start as a martial class, fighter if i want the feats and proficiencies, barb if i want to tear up level one with big hd and rage and have fast movement later on, or monk if i want the wis to ac as a druid or cleric (fast movement and flurry isnt too bad to throw in either), then i take my levels in whatever caster i want to be, and from then on, depending on what my BAB looks like it will end up by level 20, i either take more of a +1 bab per level class like fighter or barbarian, or rogue for skill monkeying and sneak attack.

i always play solo so my char has to be the tank/healer/party face/crafter/damage dealer all by himself ;D

i made a 2 ftr / 1 barb / 17 rogue that did pretty well without any crafting, using wands/scrolls/potions/items that you find or buy in the game, he started off as a TWF char, but towards the end i was addicted to power attacking with the frost brand. it looked cool, and was the best weapon i could use that you find in the game (CE character. i can hardly ever stomach being good or even neutral) power attack crit + sneak attack = boom.

early on just hire elmo, and get that rogue from the wench tavern to join your party, take them out of town, butcher them and take their loot, and you have a ring of invisibility to make the game a cake walk and a bunch of magic items to start with ;D

he killed hedrack in one round (no iuz for you buddy), and the balor in 2 iirc, with items you find in the game ;D

i actually found the hezrou to be the hardest of the demons because of all his HP and his stench.

zuggtmoy took a ridiculous amount of time, and saving and reloading though, because i didnt have a good weapon to overcome her dr or regen, so i had to deal like 720 nonlethal damage and coup de grace. i like my orb of golden death too much to destroy it, but those useless pansy demons just got fear'd by her most of the time, or wasted their turns casting mirror image liberally (cmon glabrezu just pinch her up real good you get like 9 attacks per round wtf are you doing)

and i cant just take the gems from her chair, due to egotistical/proud character reasons ;D im not just trying to survive, im making this temple kneel before zod

i liked the last thing the ending told me for that character too:

"You killed a lot of good, and a lot of evil, but in the end you bowed to no one."

 

A touch of Rogue with some meat

Because of hte face time the game gives to Rogues, i multi class the first three levels to rogues. then maybe, add another level later.

However, the amount of sociobility you get with a few levels of ROgue are all you really need to trigger most encounters in the game.

After that i go mage, druid, fighter or cleric.

Druids are fairly kewl, but the best stuff is crafted by mages