Party NPC level progression

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Goreng, Aug 1, 2007.

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  1. Goreng

    Goreng Member

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    In Co8 you have to do yourself the NPC level progression despite you don't see directly their stats nor know their class(es) levels? At this point I don't understand why make humble mod as an option. Or did I met a bug? (CMF .4)
     
  2. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    The Humble NPC's mod is simply to prevent NPC's from looting.

    In the unmodified game, NPC's would level themselves whenever they had enough XP to do so, however they would do so in a very annoying (and sometimes broken) way for example Elmo would level up as a fighter/ranger and would take 2 weapon fighting feats on his fighter levels dispite also having the feats as a ranger, NPC wizards would take very stupid spell choices, and sometimes take less spells than they were allowed to. The file that controls this could have been fixed after a lot of trial and error to make the NPC's take smart choices for thier feats, spells, skills ect... but instead the file was deliberately broken to make NPC level ups controlable by the PC's.
     
  3. krunch

    krunch moving on in life

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    In Co8 you have to do yourself the NPC level progression despite you don't see directly their stats nor know their class(es) levels?
    * You will see the stats of NPC characters joined with your party when they train and get the attribute score bonus.

    At this point I don't understand why make humble mod as an option.
    * The Humble PC option prevents NPC characters from looting, makes NPC characters allow other members of their party to give and take any item from their inventory, and prevents NPC characters from automatically selling items from their inventory.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2007
  4. Goreng

    Goreng Member

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    Thanks for the detail, I'd prefer that there's an option that fix the errors in the auto level progression. That would have respect a bit more the original conception. Ha well ok my own 2 cents.

    Ok I'll put humble npc mod on, I don't see the point of money sharing it just makes looting boring by forcing you to click two time and I don't mention the equipment management that has no sense as they don't look items. <Tiger smiley here> :)

    How I know current classes levels of a NPC?
     
  5. wizgeorge

    wizgeorge Prophet of Wizardy

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    Sorcerers Place,(the icon is at the upper-left of the page) has a listing of all the npc's and their stats and location. The current stats are on the inventory page. Do you have a game manual? If not, there is a printable copy in the main root directory.
     
  6. Goreng

    Goreng Member

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    Lol, yes I have the game manual and it says I don't have to do the level progression of NPC, since I installed Co8 that doesn't work any more, so that's a nasty Co8 bug! :D
     
  7. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    I wouldn't call a modificication that prevents NPC's from "leveling themselves up in a completely stupid way" a bug, I'd call it a bug-fix, or at the very least it's a workaround to prevent the levelup related bugs that were found in the original release.
     
  8. Old Book

    Old Book Established Member

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    Original ToEE:

    1) NPCs looted, overburdening themselves with useless junk to the point where they suffered movement penalties.

    2) NPCs did not allow you to move items in their inventory to the inventory of a PC, and did not drop items. This made inventory management a serious pain.

    3) NPCs automatically sold any item not equipped when you spoke to a merchant. That includes any backup weapons, potions, scrolls, or magic items you might have given them.

    4) NPC level up choices were out of your control, buggy, and often made no sense.

    ToEE with correctly installed Co8 and Humble NPCs:

    1) NPCs don't loot.

    2) You have complete control of their inventory.

    3) NPCs don't sell off the contents of their inventories, allowing you to equip them the same way you would a PC.

    4) You control NPC level up choices, just as you do with PCs.

    I can't imagine not using Co8 with the Humble NPCs option. The original ToEE implementation made NPCs worthless.
     
  9. wizgeorge

    wizgeorge Prophet of Wizardy

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    Amen. Humble-npc and 3.0.4 saved this game for me. I wouldn't be playing now if it wasn't for them. I know Liv didn't like it, but it sure works good for me.
     
  10. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    While I respect Humble NPCs a great deal, I actually prefer Livonya's implementation of NPC looting control, because I like the notion of some degree of NPC autonomy. Liv's system is fairly effective if you use it properly.

    And on that note, NPCs could be much more autonomous level-up wise if we just fixed their choices, couldn't they? That way we wouldn't have this silly 'Meleny ends up a Druid-4, Barabarian-6' stuff. I know the Co8 levelup mod is a storied chapter in our legacy, but it always kind of bugged me. Between that and ordering them to their own deaths without objection (by giving them crappy armor and not supporting them in battle, etc.) they really don't act sensibly or with any trace of self-interest at all. Who among ToEE's NPCs would really willingly die at the hands of a bunch of bugbears for some band of adventurers they just joined up with? :no:

    It'd be great (altho maybe impossible) if we could script some appropriate response when players do that. "Treacherous fiends! I'll not fight all your battles for you! Nor do I have any interest in joining the monastery!" :finger:
     
  11. zuluwarrior94

    zuluwarrior94 Established Member

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    I agree. Before Co8 and Humble NPC's I had quit picking up the npc's because of them getting over-burdened with too much $h!t.

    For all you Co8 modders out there: This game, with whatever bug(s) you happen to find, is Still Better Than It Ever Was!

    And I'll tell you, that for every problem I've had with it recently (except the 4th level trap opening like a chest) the "delete pyc files" thing seems to work for me.
     
  12. Old Book

    Old Book Established Member

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    Agreed on that. It was a major improvement over the old system. It also had its own set of bugs that convinced me to use humble NPCs (dialogs not changing behavior is one I recall).

    Might be worth tackling. Personally, I'd rather control it myself in game; my choices about what a good feat path for NPC X would be might not match someone else's. I'm sure a lot of players feel that way.

    Easiest way to handle that is probably to use the same running away script the chicken has. When NPC X takes too much damage, he/she flees the battle.
     
  13. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    That might not work IIRC Ted did some experimenting and discovered that NPC's ignore their heartbeat scripts when they are in the group, It might be possible to attach the script to another point (start_combat or something maybe?) but the heartbeat script would be the best place to attach such a script to, as it's known to work from that attachment point).
     
  14. Old Book

    Old Book Established Member

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    Hm. So much for easy fixes. ;)
     
  15. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    I know I'm being pedantic, but the very point is that they shouldn't be your choices; they should be the NPC's. If 'you' within the context of the game = the personage of your party leader, as opposed to a DM or an all-powerful overseer, then you would have no effect on an autonomous third party's career path but through suggestions or force. And those would probably be really hard to mod effectively. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2007
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