Scather confusion

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Gorgor2000, Apr 28, 2007.

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  1. Gorgor2000

    Gorgor2000 Member

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    God this scather thing is bad.

    I look at the amazing Co8 pack, but it turns Scather, the best greatsword, into a bastard sword. So I don't install it, but do install through patch 3.

    I played the game halfway thru and got it, solo, specializing in greatswords. I get it. Description says it's a bastard sword. I don't realize it's actually a greatsword.

    Ahh, what the heck. So I restart, this time solo, specializing in dual wielding bastard swords. I plan to get both that and Fragglerock. Boards say it can be done, so I figure out a way to do it. Spoiler:
    Get Prince killed, loot, take him back to the city, rez, and then tp right back to the city, wait 14 days, go to Nulb, bam.
    I have both now.

    I go to dual wield, and that's when I discover that, even though Scather says it's a bastard sword, it's actually a greatsword.

    So I can either reload my old game and continue, or I can try to convert it to a bastard sword, ala the Co8 patch.

    So here's my question: Is there a mini-patch or something I can use to convert it now, with my existing saved game? I could restart a third time with the full patch installed, but I'm getting tired of doing this as it's actually my 3rd time getting to this point (the first time I didn't realize you needed to be chaotic good to get the max use from this sword.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2007
  2. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    If you decide to take advantage of the many many adjustments/improvements, and added content and quests with areas the Co8 mod pack offers you will need to roll back your patching to Atari's official patch #2.

    As far as I know there isn't a patch available for just Scather. The Co8 cmf adds many extraordinary, if not a little unbalancing weapons. You could download the cmf and open the description.mes (with a text editor, maybe notepad) and look at all the very cool weapons and armor added. This might prompt you, as it did me to design a few other equipment specific characters.

    Happy gaming.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2007
  3. Gorgor2000

    Gorgor2000 Member

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    Well, lemme ask this then -- I thought if I installed the Co8 patch that I couldn't load saved game files. Or is that just the Atari patches?

    I could try rolling back patch 3 and installing the Co8 patch after saving off the saved games files just in case.
     
  4. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    I don't recommend using a save game from different patches, TOEE save games are fragile. There are still times players have suffered corrupted save games for no reason at all. Never autosave, save in different spots and save often.

    Once I installed the Co8 cmf, the vanilla version of TOEE didn't have much to offer. Of course this is my opinion :)
     
  5. Gorgor2000

    Gorgor2000 Member

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    The only problem I've ever had with a saved game was saving during battle when it was not my turn -- in that case, the game loads in an unplayable state (like it's the monsters' turn, but the game is waiting for input from me, which I cannot provide.)

    Autosave was never a problem, or saving when it was my turn in battle.

    I have installed the patch after re-installing patch 2, which evidently is how to roll back patch 3. We shall see shortly...
     
  6. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

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    I htink Trokia was confused when they made the game - Fragarach and scather are both longswords in pnp, I think for balance issues and that you're not suposed to get your hands on both at the same time they made them greatswords in the unpatched version of the game. due to various factors (ie a bastard sword is closer to a longsword) they are now both bastard swords in the Co8 patches.
     
  7. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    Gorgor2000:

    If you've installed the Co8 cumulative mods and fixes (cmf) then you might want to turn of auto save as it steals the first heartbeat when entering a screen, which is when some cmf triggers are fired.
     
  8. Lord_Spike

    Lord_Spike Senior Member Veteran

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    Broadsword, my dear k9...broadswords. They originally made their appearance as Broadswords of Answering.
     
  9. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

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    Spike, can you please tell me the difference between a longsword and a broadsword in refferance to early pnp dnd. The reason I ask is that in recent times there has become a tendancy to call a one handed straight sword of moderate length either a longsword or a broadsword altho a more accurate term could be an arming sword.
     
  10. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    Hey Cujo:

    This is what Wikipedia says about Broadswords.
    The term broadsword is used to refer to different types of swords, across many cultures and time periods.

    During the 17th through 19th centuries, the term referred to contemporary European straight double-edged basket-hilted swords, like the Italian schiavona and the Scottish claymore. Surviving examples of such swords are around 105 cm long (90 cm of which is blade) with a base blade width of 3.5 cm and a mass of about one kilogram.
    Later in this period, the term was applied to any broad-bladed military sword, including the sabre and the backsword, as opposed to the comparatively slimmer-bladed rapier, smallsword, and épée. In the late 19th century, museum curators began to use the term retroactively to refer to the Medieval arming sword and longsword, which remains the popular usage today.
    The Chinese Dao is sometimes translated as "broadsword."

    ps.....first time I've heard of an arming sword.
     
  11. Lord_Spike

    Lord_Spike Senior Member Veteran

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    Longswords were slightly more expensive. They were the same overall size & slightly heavier, and required slightly more space to wield. The Broadsword was more effective against lightly armored or unarmored opponents, and did a lot less damage versus "large" opponents...though their potential against S or M sized targets was slightly better. The vast majority of magical weapons found was weighted towards Longswords. Based on what I know of these rules, I'd say what we're comparing here are weapons chiefly designed for hacking & slashing (the Broadsword) and one which is better suited for cut and thrust (the Longsword). A heavier, broader blade vs. the pointy, more balanced variety; each meant for use with one hand.

    Some examples of each are found here, including your arming sword, which I'd say fit the "Bastard" description from this era of the game:

    http://www.armor.com/
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2007
  12. Cujo

    Cujo Mad Hatter Veteran

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    now I'n curious about that - I assume that 5'/5' squares havn't always been the way of things.
     
  13. krunch

    krunch moving on in life

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    The idea of weapon reach stems from miniatures. Things changed and the original game spawned a simple boxed set of D&D called Basic Dungeons & Dragons (BD&D). BD&D had tables for character progression, specifically, to 3rd level (and up). BD&D led to the release of Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (AD&D), the 1st Edition.

    I do not know about Europe and the rest of the world; however, in the USA, the release of the 1st Edition AD&D hardback books (the DM Guide, Players Handbook, and Monster Manual) caused AD&D 1st Ed. to spread like wildfire across college campuses in the USA. Students would take the game home and introduce playing AD&D 1st Edition to their friends. (I remember when I was kid and my brother brought AD&D 1st Ed. home from college, talking about D&D and proclaiming "we have to play this game" just like 10s of 1,000s of college students did at that time.)

    Most people who played AD&D 1st Ed. did not use miniatures. For one, they were expensive. People literally used pencil, paper, and dice. You would play the game initially using plain paper or 3"x5" cards for maps and character sheets, and, after you got hooked, you would buy graph paper, a notebook just for D&D stuff, actual character sheets, and better quality dice. Most people I knew or heard of who bought miniatures would keep their miniatures on a shelf or, in a game, keep them beside of their soda and bag of potato chips in near vicinity of their dice.

    In pNp D&D where miniatures and a large scaled map are not used, there would be an encounter and initiative would be determined - and, possibly, surprise. Characters would either prepare spells or shoot range weapons or move toward the monster(s). Monsters or NPCs being attacked would likewise do the same. When melee was finally engaged, according to initiative and movement, you determined your chance to hit and, simply, rolled the dice - same for monsters and NPCs. People played using rules like spell resistance. They may have or may not have used morale. Typically, aspects of things like 'reach' were not used because in a lot of pNp games, there were no miniatures or large scale maps. Also, things like the amount of time it would take to draw a sword or arm a bow were not even considered. A character under a haste spell received double attacks or moved twice in one round or under a slow spell received half of normal attacks or moved half of normal in each round per the length of spell effect.

    Lastly, here are the stats (AD&D 2nd Ed.).

    Broad Sword - cost 10 GP; weight: 75 GP; damage: S/M 2d4, L 1d6+1

    Long Sword - cost 15 GP; weight: 60 GP; damage: S/M 1d8, L 1d12
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2007
  14. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    My first exposure to D&D was seeing it in ET.

    I miss broadswords. They had a long popular history (I seem to remember Arthur and Lancelot sparred with broadswords in Camelot, treating them as weapons kept for just such an occasion, where the longsword was used in proper combat with a shield) and gave you that extra choice.
     
  15. wizgeorge

    wizgeorge Prophet of Wizardy

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    I just finished an original game with patch2, humble_npc and max hp. Fragarach is a bastard sword and with Exoticweps can be used one-handed with a shield. Scather is a greatsword, 2d6dmg, 19-20x2 and must be used two-handed. The dialouge says Scather is a bastardsword, but it's not. I think it was changed around 3.0.4, not sure. I sold it and used the console to take Fragarach.
     
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