Seperating mods from bug-fixes

Discussion in 'General Modification' started by ShadowDragoon, Mar 11, 2007.

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  1. ShadowDragoon

    ShadowDragoon Advocate of Vengence

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    I've just now noticed that there are a lot of topics around from people who simply want the bugs fixed on their game, without all the swanky new stuff added. I don't know why myself, but those topics seem to pop up every week or so. So, I was wondering if anybody had considered just splitting it up for convenience sake? Have one download for the people that just want the bug-fixes. "Here. Install this. It fixes the bugs without giving you all the extra stuff you don't want for god-only-knows what reason. Enjoy." And then, also have a different download for all of the mods for the game, like the CMF.

    Would this be a difficult process? Is there any merit behind doing it? Has it already been mentioned before and I just wasn't around to see the topic? ;)
     
  2. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    I think we should consider offering alternative files for those who only want bug-fixes in the nextinstallerversion of the Co8 patch (IE dialogues in which theprisoners do NOT mark Verbobonc on the map, dialogue for mona that does NOT mark Hickory Branch on your map, and a version of whatever file it is that triggers the moathouse respawn, that does NOT trigger the respawn, and leave the rest of the game as is.) just like we do for desperate housewives now.

    That way the people have the choice, and the modders don't have the task of separating fix from new content.
     
  3. Cerulean the Blue

    Cerulean the Blue Blue Meanie Veteran

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    Yes, this has come up several times before. At this late date it would be at least a rather long and tedious process, and at most a long, tedious and extremely difficult process. The real crux of the issue is that so far no modder has wanted to spend the time (most likely several months) and energy to split the bug fixes from the new content, and I can't say I blame them. Who would want to spend all that time and energy repackaging existing mods when they could be making something new or fixing bugs that haven't been fixed yet?

    As for making more install options, I am against it. We have too many already, and they seem to add to the confusion. If people don't want to play the new content, they don't have too. They are easily avoided. It's not like we have a customer base we have to satisfy or anything, and I don't recalling anyone saying they wouldn't download our mod because of the new content.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2007
  4. Lord_Spike

    Lord_Spike Senior Member Veteran

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    Besides, most of the serious gameplay changes can simply not be undertaken by choice of the player anyway. Just don't do the quest. I have yet to play DH, HB, and maybe one or two more.
     
  5. Salk

    Salk Established Member

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    Hello guys! I am just one of the people out there that would rather install just the bugs fixing content if given the chance to. Not having this possibility I am still going to use the patch anyway as the trade off shifts towards an undeniable improvement on the overall gameplay. However, saying that the new added content should not represent an issue because can always be skipped does not really make much sense. If I play a game where some parts of it are unsatisfactory I immediately think that I would have enjoyed it better if that part was not included because its presence can't just be simply ignored. If I write a book and one chapter is very bad, I can't say to the readers "do not read that chapter then". I realize that it's not just the same thing but nonetheless it feels a little like a cheap way out of the problem. Said that, thank you very much for working on this excellent Mod! :notworthy
     
  6. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    The easy way out of this is to simply consider Allyx's Toffee version of 3.0.4 to be our 'bug fixes only' release. It contains the moebius .dll and only one new content mod to my knowledge - Burne's Puzzles. It of course doesn't contain near the bug fixes of the current release, but for the few people that are abhorred at the prospect of playing our added content, that's what they should use.
     
  7. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    Alternatively, I've prepared a small fix that will disable the Verbobonc, Moathouse respawn and Hickory Branch mods for those that want to use it for thier 5.0.0 installs, I haven't disabled Livonya's added content, or the burnes puzzles quest, as they'd require a bit more work than just replacing a few files with their original versions.

    Anyone that tries this out, bear in mind, I've not tested this, but there shouldn't be any problems, just make sure Co8-5.0.0 is the last module you ran bfore extracting this to your root DIR.
     

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  8. Agetian

    Agetian Attorney General Administrator

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    Ah, I'm getting sick and tired of this "separate bug fixes from the content" requests and stuff...

    This was asked and discussed a hundred times before, sometimes in a nice form, sometimes in an impudent "you-owe-it-to-us" form. The real trick here is that this is a really long and tedious process, and at the moment no one wants to do this because it's likely that it'll take a bunch of months and will still yield an incomplete result. Keep in mind that many bug-fixes are tightly intertwined with the new content, sometimes even on the DLL level, and separating the two is merely impossible unless we take out both the content and the related bug-fix.

    In my opinion, if you don't like the idea of something in the Co8 mod, just don't use it (don't do the quest, don't use the item, etc.). Otherwise, if you want the content and bugfixes separated that badly, take your time, learn to mod the game, and offer your newly attained skills to the team ("Guys, I want to volunteer to help you split the mod content from the bug fixes", you know). What? Do I hear you telling me that it'll take many months, if not years, to learn how to mod? Well why, yes it will, and that's how it works. There's no easy way to mod ToEE, it's a hard and tedious process, and that could be a part of why many of us just don't feel like redesigning our mod in order to make two packages (bug-fixes and content) instead of just one (bug-fixes + content), especially considering that most people will want to use the combined package anyway.

    Sorry if I sounded way too irritated, but I think these requests are getting a little over the top by now. Maybe we should actually make a new sticky that would say "Do not make requests about separating the new content from the bug-fixes unless you want to offer your help in this respect"?... (just kidding) :\

    @ Allyx: About offering alternative files in the next installer: I'd like to note that this will most likely not solve our problem with the requests - remember, you can only disable certain features with alternative files in an easy way (e.g. Verbo-mod, the Hickory, etc.), while other changes such as the new weapons, new armor, certain new quests, will require a lot more work.

    - Agetian
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2007
  9. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    Oh, I know that dude, I wasn't about to bend over backwards to disable all the new content, I mean the Burnes puzzles mod was added before I even joined Co8, it's just that "most" of the complaints about the fact that there is new content in the game, stem from the game ballance being disturbed by these 3 mods in particular as they are the largest new content mods in the current Co8 mod pack (+ CMF 5.0.3). Adding these files to the DH option (renamed to "new content removal") in the installer was about as far as I was going to go with this project.
     
  10. Agetian

    Agetian Attorney General Administrator

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    @ Allyx: Yup, I know, and I agree with this - certain things could be made optional that way, if it's simple enough.

    - Agetian
     
  11. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    Nah, you read the tutorials and then open Notepad. Its easy!

    O and ToEEWB helps too ;)
     
  12. Salk

    Salk Established Member

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    Allyx, I appreciate your efforts and I thank you for providing us with your fix. I just don't think I will try it and rather go for the whole package instead because at this point is crazy to think of the Co8 Mod as something different than what it's been developed to become. I did not by any means mean to disregard the added content which I cannot even judge as I had never played it before. Everything added by you guys might even be better than what Trokia has done originally. I'd just wish everything was cumulative, having separate releases to try at leisure. That's all...But I do consider myself lucky for taking advantage of your amazing job and I won't ever finish thanking you for this. I apologize if my former post might have sounded offensive. Keep up the great work! And thanks again!
     
  13. Agetian

    Agetian Attorney General Administrator

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    @ Salk: We're by no means forcing anyone to try anything that's downloadable from our boards, so sure - it's entirely up to every person to choose what exactly to download and play, if anything. It's impossible to satisfy absolutely everyone, there will always be people who don't like something - that's just how it works. I'm sorry that you haven't found what you were looking for (the bug-fix packages), I guess you'll have to wait until someone volunteers to do a thing like that, or just play something else.

    Since this topic has already been covered (yet again) and since I'm aware that this topic of the discussion is known to cause disturbances on the board, I'm closing it before it turns into something worse than what it is right now (it's good to say "enough" here, I guess).

    - Agetian
     
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