Game Creation Question

For about a year and a half I have been working on two games. One is a P-n-P RPG game and the other is a miniatures wargame (think of games like Warhammer Fantasy, Lord of The Rings and you get the idea.)
Of the two the P-n-P game seemes to be having the least number of snags in the creation process. I nearly have it to a playtesting stage. The wargame however is hitting nearly every snag I can find.
At this point the wargame is set on the backburner and I'm busting my arse getting the RPG going. If all goes well I'll be playtesting it with a few of my gaming friends by mid-February.
I feel bad about putting off the wargame but part of the decision to do so was the news that when the World of Warcraft computer game was released wargaming took a serious hit.
I guess the question I would ask is what do gamers really look for in an RPG game? This is not to start arguments or really even debates but to see what each gamer thinks make a good RPG or wargame.
I thank all for their input.

 

In keeping with this, perhaps each should answer what they like, and not what they think everyone else likes. It looks like tabletop is the venue, so I think we should stick to that as well.

For me, I like games that are unburdened by too much realism & too many rules. Brevity is good, too. I don't always want a single game to go on in marathon fashion. It should be interesting within the framework of its scope; in other words, keep one's attention focused for the duration of the length of play...once people get bored, it's game over.

Games I enjoy on the table-top:

Advanced D&D (the original 1st Edition)
Fortress America ("Saddam" box)
Axis & Allies (2004 ed.)
The Settlers of Catan
Risk (I have LotR & 2210 A.D. variants)
Carcassonne
Gargon
Citadels
Guillotine
Tactics II
Air War
Star Fleet Battles

With the exception of the first few & the last two, these are in no particular order. SFB (& AW) are exceedingly difficult to play unless you love wrestling with rules & rules lawyers...and these are invariably the types that are drawn to it. When I play, I try to keep it on a basic level to ease the pain & keep it interesting. After a couple of rounds, it's time to play something else. But, it is exceedingly satisfying to blast through an opponent's shields with Hellbores or oveloaded fusion beams at a range of "0".

Hydrans - the only thing a Klingon might be said to fear...

 

Fleshed out characters and paradigm. In my opinion, there are few things more irritating in a game than when the environment is entirely two diminsional. Everyone and everything, from governments to commoners, has reasons, a purpose, flaws, strengths and passions. Explore those. Enhance those. And don't let your world be built on the foundations of "just because."

 

adaptable/customisable characters, atm I like high dex melee characters which means multiclassing in DnD to get a character setup I like.

 

For me, it's all about the customization. I mean, look at D&D. The amount of races, classes, feats, skills, and weapons all add up to a nigh-infinite amount of options for your character. It can literally be anyone and anything you want, to no extent. And that's not even getting into the world itself. Add along dungeons that anybody can create out of the blue, new monsters being added on a practically weekly basis, and just more and more general stuff coming from Wizards almost daily... That's what has me hooked on D&D.

 

I actually find dnd quite restrictive, its quite accurate to real life (as far as it can be compared) in some aspects and in others its a long way off, and then there's the things I think they forgot about. an example of the former is bastard swords that are really a one handed weapon but you get a bonus when you use then two handed (eg behaves as a longsword when its used one handed and as a bastard swords two handed) then there are things like AC progression which doesn't exist in dnd, but come on in kendo half your training is how not to get hit by the other guy and there's the fact that armour piercing weapons don't ignore armour to a point eg a greatsword should ignore the first 4 points of any armour bonus granted to AC.

 

Er, um...ok. :nervous: So, why not tell Dragon_Awakened what you do like, and not S_Dragoon what you don't? Might keep things smoother, here. eace:

 

well sometimes knowing what people don't like is also helpful. I'm also going to assume that any RPG that's released in comptition with dnd is going to have to exploit some of dnd'd weaknesses as well as having its own strengths to gain popularity.

 

Dragon_Awakened:
I really like dnd but a rpg doesn't have to be dnd to be fun, myself I enjoy it when an adventure has many opportunities for the players to be creative, more than one way to solve a problem.

 

Update

Well thank you to all who have put in their comments so far. The miniatures wargame has gone from the back burner to the grave at this point. I went from a few minor setbacks to going back to square 1 again. The P-n-P RPG however is going smoothly at this point so it is the game that I will discuss from this point on. The character creation process has been the hardest to work out on the flip side the combat system has been a breeze.
The game is set in a Sword and Sorcery setting and although one shouldn't use the word realistic in a fantasy setting I will break that rule. The combat system is pretty much realistic; serious wounds bring serious penalties. In D&D a 50 hit point character that has been driven down to his or her last 5-10 hit points can still operate normally in combat. In reality that character would be punch drunk and staggering barely able to use their weapon or shield effectively. I did 3 classes(schools) but 15 aspects of those classes (5 from each school. I don't really know what to reveal without patents in place but I really busted my ass on this game. While I thought it might be ready to do a play test with a few friends by the middle of this month it looks like I'm another month out as both the magic and treasure system are really slowing me down.
I thank you all for your time and all input is appreciated.

 

you description of the health system sounds fantastic.I always hated in some games how you could fight just as well when you were almost dead as when your fresh. In a couple of my favourite games, bushido blade 1&2 (mostly in 1) you couldn't fight as well if you were almost dead. you also had pretty lucky to be almost dead as mostly you died in one hit.

 

That doesn't sound like a fun game if you die that quickly.

But, keep us up to date with the game progress, D_A. If you need help with anything else, I'm sure there are people here willing to do what they can.

 

You don't die that easily.

I had put alot of thought into how the health system in the game would go. I knew that if a character were killed easily then nobody would really play. Characters have two forms of defense the first is a Parry or Dodge system. If the active defense system fails the characters armor will swallow some of the damage. In an early combat playtest I had put a young knight in platemail against an orc sub chieftain. It took 10 turns for the combat to end and the knight was victorious. The sub-chief was higher in exprience than the knight but the knights heavy armor took much of the damage. There were a few aspects of the combat system not fully in place (the specific wounds tables) so it was simply that the two fought until their armor and health wore down. There are revisions now that will definitely speed up combat. I look at it this way I'm trying to catch any major flaws before I have to do what WoTC had to do with 3rd edition (goint to a 3.5 to correct major errors and fix complaints.) I've been at this for a year and a half.
Characters have to keep their gear in good repair or it degrades unlike D&D where it appears that a suit of rusty full plate protects you just as well as a bright shiny, new suit does. Combat is the quickest source of armor and weapon degradation but other factors do apply. The player truly does have to immerse themselves in the character they have created. Not to the extent that they are running around whacking trees (imagined foes) with sticks (imaginary weapon of choice). They just have to pay a bit more attention to what is happening in game. "Gee my trusty sword has alot of notches in it and the hilt is a bit loose." this is a good sign your weapon's durability is being greatly taxed. "My trusty breastplate has some uncomfortable dents in it and one of my clasps is not buckling properly." this would mean your armor is not far behind your sword in failing durability.
This will just keep players on their toes.
Thanks for the input and I'm not worried about revealing what I have as some of it is likely to be revised soon after the first couple of play tests.

 

This is off topic, but I'd really like to see a computer game version of RuneBound. It'll probably never happen and remain a board game-only game.

 

playing ToEE most of my characters have low hp, which often results in fights with 4 characters unscathed and one on -2hp cos someone got a lucky roll. I rely totally on armour or dexterity to save my hide cos it anoys me that a critical hit from a raging barbarian can kill my lvl 2 PCs in one go but after a few push ups and a few talks with strangers my PCs can suddenly handle a couple of critical blows.