yeah it is strange the great cleaver is better than a battle axe which has been used in countless battles for years by dwarves but they couldnt make a great cleaver? If the great cleaver were a real weapon you'd quickly realise that even if you could deal that damage the cleaver would get STUCK in the victim whereas the battleaxe is designed to be weighted properly and cut through enemies and swing with a backswing (hence the double blade) If you dont believe me, grab yourself a meat cleaver and try it on a uncooked chicken or leg of lamb. ---------------------------------------------- 11. Anyone get a bug where you provoke an AO and they get like...9 attacks? Falrinth beat the shit out of me when my cleric walked past and he got 17 hits with his dagger. yep I found that one also, falrinth got infinite AO (ie until the character went down) I have a question about bards also... the BARDIC knowledge, when does it work? is it a menu command (I never found it) does it sometimes identify stuff you pick up? I also noticed some items are AUTO identified (in a party with no bard) I think lareths club of striking was one.