What skills would you give to cleric?

Yes! Considering that all Spellcraft really does is ID spells for you in the game, it would be nice if it actually did that. I find it irritating as well to max out a skill and all of my spellcasters are completely stumped 90% of the time. Like Ted, I would just like to see the line telling me what was cast, even if I the player know what it was. It's sad that I would get a little thrill whenever a spell was ever ID'd.

Party: "Yay, woohoo, alright!"
passing stranger: "So you guys are happy to have beaten those tough opponents?"
Party: "No, we're celebrating because Josef identified a magic missile three months ago."

Yes, it does work. I was able to counterspell fireballs in the Fire Temple (even though I shouldn't have been able to counter abilities, but there you go.)

 

Okay. Cool.

Yeah, unfortunately ToEE doesn't distinguish between spells and monster abilities.

 

Spellcraft checks cannot be made unless one makes an initial listen check. Further without a spot check as well then the DC goes up even more. I believe that these rules are coded in and so if they are outside the "vision" bubble of the character and have obstacles separating them then the check might not even be rolled. As the listen check fails.

If you're getting no results when the people are right in front of you then that's another problem that I cannot explain.

FR

 

Me too. In fact, with my first party this is the way I survived (after an initial "Power Word Reload" heh heh). I didn't realise that spell like abilities couldn't be counterspelled, but you ARE right-thanks for pointing that out to me, although in PNP I reckon if someone is taking the time to counterspell I will reward them for their diligence anyway!

A weird thing with the counterspell, though. The game seemed to choose the counterspell automatically and the first time I THINK I lost BOTH a dispel AND a fireball. Did anyone try to counterspell whilst packing both dispel and the exact spell?

(Dispel has the risk of not working, BUT you don't need to identify the enemy spell and it works against any spell, so I had it just in case).

 

Where is this in the D&D rules? I know some DMs have House rules to that effect, but I can find no mention of it in the SRD. All it says is you have to be able to see or hear the spell being cast. While I can understand a DM requesting such checks in a chaotic, loud situation as combat, they're not required in the rules as written.

Or is this one of Troika's "House Rules" and listed in the game manual?

 

I doubt this is even in need of a "house ruling" as you say. The text says that you must see and hear in order to make a check. Seeing as I have on occasion received successful spell IDs in situations where I could only see or only hear as well as situations where I could only have a CHANCE to see or hear the casting then I can only assume the checks are a part of it. Otherwise the game designers would have simply created a line of sight rule to be attached (which they may have and I just didn't realize I had LoS) and applied it.

Try walking upstairs in the temple of St. Cuthbert and hearing what the Bishop casts... if your lead character is closest to his room you may get something, but 9 times out of 10 I get nothing because he's separated from me by walls and distance...

I think this game has a very nuanced spot and listen system which I respect in all regards other than the lack of understanding when it comes to the "must hide with cover" rule.

Cheers,

FR

 

I can understand them using Spot and Listen checks for wandering about, but once you're in the same room, it's assumed in the D&D rules that you can see or at least hear any creatures in the room with you, barring things like use of Hide, Move Silently or obscuring magics.

The impression I was getting was folks were complaining about not knowing what's being cast on them in combat, not what Terjon's casting while they climb the stairs to the second floor of the Church.

 

My assumption was the opposite. Perhaps that is where we both need clarification. I've only ever encountered this problem when I had no LoS...

FR

 

People in gunfights don't always know they are shooting, or being shot at, for that matter. I think a spot or listen check should be a minimal requirement unless there is a feat or extenuating circumstance at work. :shrug: Some spells happen way too fast for them to be couteracted, I should think.

 

But the way counterspelling works is you have to ready an action ahead of time. It's not like "Whoops, there's a spell, let me counter it." It's "If this bastard tries to cast something, I'm ready for it."

That said, as I mentioned earlier, it's not an unreasonable house rule to require a Spot or Listen check prior to making a Spellcraft roll in combat if you're not engaging the spellcaster yourself (since your attention is likely elsewhere), and lot of PNP DMs do so, but the rules aren't written that way. Which is why I was wondering if Troika had mentioned something in the manual about implementing something like that. However, checking the list of rules changes in the back doesn't list it.