Electrical Traps, Chest Traps, and Diary Traps

Part of Liv's reasoning for these traps was to encourage one dedicated Rogue in the party. You do need close to maxed out stats and spell buffs to get past them, or to come back at level 4 or so.

Of course, many (most?) players run Rogues with 18 INT and 18 DEX.

The Smith's chest is a nice little trivial side quest. I'd prefer to keep it in.

Lareth's trapped diary may be set too high.

Of course, Troika / Atari specifically didn't want to force you to take a Rogue.

I guess I'd suggest lowering the difficulty of all locks and traps in the Moathouse so that a level 2 Rogue with 16 INT and DEX and maxed skills could open / disable them. From a story point of view, it makes sense for Lareth to scatter about some fairly deadly traps in order to take care of wandering adventurers and greedy employees, but they shouldn't require constant buffing of typical Rogues to get past.

 

After 10+ times through the game, I still haven't figured out who has the password for the electricty trap (and really, whacking people with subdual damage and then CDGing them when you find out they don't have the password really isn't my idea of fun anyway) and as mentioned, somewhere along the way the device for disabling it got broken by one of the fixes, so it, above all, has to go.

I also agree with you on Lareth's diary. It doesn't serve any real purpose to lock and trap it (if it is locked and trapped, why the heck doesn't Lareth have the key? Otherwise there's no way for him to update his own diary) and in effect it just leads the player to forget about it until the information within is moot.

I see the chests within the moathouse as either leftovers from the previous occupation of the moathouse, or else Troika just making it easy to find the treasure of the assorted monsters who are in the area (rather than hitting Tab, hunting for the blue glow, and then picking up each item from within the crayfish's pool, you just have to open the chest and divy up the loot inside. It's a matter of balancing realism with good player experience) the chests found later in the game actually hold the belongings of various people and thus make a lot more sense (especially since the owners are typically carrying keys.) So random chests in moathouse having really high lock DCs and nasty traps doesn't make a lot of sense.

I know Liv loves Rogues, and she was trying to make them a lot more useful, but in the end I think the additional traps don't really add anything to the game.

 

ok I voted for Yes, the electricity trap on Temple level 4 needs to go.
can you change it Yes, all the traps need to go.

on a side note I was thinking that almost all of the new content is optional - you can chose to go play it, its not forced apon you. Livs traps are an exception to this as is the big 3 ambush, which is fun but I think it should only occur within a short time of killing lareth. If your party doesn't leave by the cave exit and then weeks later uses it the ambush happens - were the waiting there the whole time? well no, I was just in the welcom wench and the big 3 were all there, must be fast runners, and brave to face a high level party at full health as well - they didn't even try running away when things started going bad for them and there was no talking them out of it.

 

Frankly, I never had a problem with any of the traps. I was always able to open Lareth's diary immediately after getting it. (A Rogue with maxed-out Open Locks and Disable Device is a staple in my party). As far as the Moathouse and Electricity traps...I honestly don't remember ever seeing them. Ever. Period. Unless you mean just the regular chests that have traps. If you do...once again, Rogue. Those traps were no problem at all. So...I don't see any point in them even being there anyway.

 

For the record, the trolls on level 4 are not the ones with the password. The fact that you can interrogate them is a red herring. And the level 4 lightning trap was not broken by anything. It still works just like it always did. The people having problems with it are experiencing installation issues.

I think everybody who complains about these traps are wusses.

I say they should all stay. The lightning trap could use to be MOBed in, rather than spawned as it is now, along with the other things that said spawner adds to level 4, but it makes sense that there would be something to keep you from waltzing straight up to Hedrack once you reach level 4. The original module had the curtain of fungi (or something), but we can't do that in the game so we have the lightning trap. Most of the complaints about the trap are from people who kill first and ask questions later, or seem to think that party build should not effect the way the game plays.

Lareth's diary should be trapped, as should Romag's. It makes sense that they would have some sort of precaution in place to keep prying eyes away from their secrets, and more than just a simple lock.

Liv upped the DC on all the traps in the game, not just the ones in the Moathouse, and it was a good thing. I've never had any problem with any of them. I think they all fit the story line. We do not need a back story on why every trap is where it is and why it has the DC it does.

 

It is my belief that the traps should be revised to more closely resemble things found in the module. Otherwise, they should go; at least until they can be suitably re-worked to fit better.

 

Last month I uninstalled ToEE and all patches, deleted my entire Atari directory, did a complete reinstall of ToEE, Patch 2, Co8 5.0, and the latest CMFs and the only thing that's not working correctly for me is the trap on level 4. Clicking on the control boxes causes them to open like chests instead of opening a dialogue box.

And I understand that. But how do they get into them without a key?

 

They get into the diaries just like the PCs do: by disabling the traps. Since they know the traps are there, and exactly how to disable them, they have a much easier time of it though. It could be as simple as pressing certain studs along the spine of the diary in a certain order.

As for the control boxes, I'm running the exact same files as you are, and it works just fine for me. I can find nothing that was changed that would cause such a problem. I've been through the files 3 times now looking for the problem. If you would like, you can PM me for my email address and send me your protos and scr and dlg folders and I will try to find the problem.

 

Three times i've gotten the electrical and just got a empty chest with a 10 lvl Rogue with 19 DisableDevice. The game i'm in now it worked fine. There are work-arounds for all the traps. Traps have been a part of the game since it's invention. They can be a pain, but it's part of the game. Every now and then, Barkinar comes out the side exit, turns and goes up the hallway thru the trap, and isn't affected. I'm thinking he knows the password, but I can't figure out how to go about. His appearance is so random. Maybe someday.

 

I have always been able to disable the trap on lvl 4. I think that the traps should stay, makes it more interesting.

 

Yes, there was a fungus curtain, and you neede a scarab token to get by it without serious ill effects. I think that the electrical trap isn't as cool as that, but is at least something to similar effect.

Traps are good! They are an integral part of the old school AD&D that produced the temple of elemental evil. It woldn't be AD&D without traps. Likewise, Liv's mods are works of genious, and whatever else is changed, her stuff should remain.

If someone doesn't make sure that they have a good thief in the party,they face the consequences of not having one, which means getting stung by traps. I think so of these people crying about traps should go through some other old school modules, and face save or die traps without those automatic chances of detection that they get in the new kinder gentler "Dungeons and Lullabys" game.

@Spike "Can I get an Amen!"

 

That electric trap is so inconsistant it is almost entertaining. Every time I get there, I have a running bet whether the control box will work or not. I show up with groups that feature PC rogues ranging from level 3 / 18 Dex to pure rogues at level 12 / 26 dex (with boosts) and maxed skills, but it doesn't seem to matter. Sometimes I get the dialog and disarm it, sometimes it just opens like a chest. If CtB says that nothing has broken it, fine. I don't doubt him. Then it is just a squirrley bastard that begs to either be replaced with a floor tile trap or just dumped altogether. It adds nothing but aggravation, as Gaear said. A good idea? Yes. Not a good implementation.

 

just an idea, but what if the scarabs offered protection from the trap as they should do if it was a fungi curtain then you could get rid of the control boxes and just have to have the scarab and a password to get through. You could talk directly to the trap this way, or we could just flag it when you found the password. Flag + item = no shock.

the lesser temples would provide you with the goods after runing around for them, but if not (ie LG) you might just have to beat the shit out of someone/kill for them.

 

How do they get the lock open without a key? Or do the studs manage the locks too (and how old are combination locks? Serious question, because I don't have a clue. The vast majority of the locks in D&D are the normal kind that use a key.) in which case does a Rogue "picking locks" actually mean he's just managing to guess the combination?

Based on Wizgeorge and erkeper's posts, and my own experiences (the reason I did the reinstall in the first place was because the trap wasn't working correctly) I wonder if something done earlier in the game or a "save corruption" of some kind is causing the script not to fire.

I'll send you my files, though. I think I've still got your addy from the protos update. If not, I'll PM you.

I say ditch the password idea completely and make the scarabs do the trick. That seems more in-line with the original module.