Hi! New to ToEE and some questions.

First of all, I'm glad to come across ToEE in the bargain bin.

Secondly, to find Co8's patch. :biggergri

But just some questions needing answers.

I've noticed that under the launch window, there is 2 choices of module to load. One of 'em is the original ToEE and the other is the Co8's. Whats the difference?

Secondly, I either blow at setting up a competent party of adventurers or I'm doing the quests in wrong sequence?

My party of a Rogue. Fighter, Cleric, Sorceror, Ranger and Paladin kept on losing to the Barbarian Bandit Leader in the Ruined Moathouse. The quest I've got from the Church after returning the brooch I got.

Any advice for a newbie? :mrhappy:

P.s. I'm too, very new to the D&D concept but I like this kind of turn based game since I totally love Fallout and Fallout II. As well as the lesser cousin, Fallout Tactics to a certain extent.

 

You really do need to gain second level before going after the moathouse. After you return the broach go house to house and talk to the villagers. You should get easily enough experience from the tasks they give you to level up once, then go to the moathouse via the world map, instead of the using dialogue option when you return the broach.

Definately clear the Deklo wood before the moathouse. If you don't feel like running all of the townsfolk's errands, then you can choose to camp out in the grove for a bit and gather enough experience to level up from the random encounters. It seems you can't rest anywhere outside the inn without running into enough monsters to make you wonder how anyone ever drives a cart, cuts firewood, picks berries, or works in the outlying farms without a squad of soldiers and a battlemage to protect them.

I have no idea how do these 0 level peasants work for their whole lives in an area that can't go eight hours without baddies that will challenge a low level adventuring party showing up.

I know T1 was meant for a first level party, but the computer version has become an arms race of sorts. You need to either think like a munchkin or level up before most of the battles, or you will lose PCs in every major fight.

 

I see, so I could actually wander around looking for fights in the wild before embarking on the "Main" quest? *Phew* And I was starting to worry that I can't advance at all.

Thanks for the reply. Now to get back and polish up my skills in adventuring.

And is there a list/file/manual of some sort for the changed skills/mechanics of the game by Co8?

Thanks again for any replies.

 

The original version of the computer ToEE game was such that one-PC character could march through the entire game and win, by theirself with some good rolls at certain times and with some well made decisions by the player behind the PC character. What's that compared to an entire party of PC and NPC characters...know what I mean? Plus, the ToEE game was broken in many places and was nearly impossible to play an entire, complete game without encountering any CTDs or other major problems.

IMO - Arms Race? I think not and vote no. I see the Co8 effort as what was taking an originally okay, but very broken computer game and turning it in to the absolute best possible D&D game that can be modded where the updated and corrected computer game involves elements with epic qualities about it of which is what particpating in a fistful of gold coins slobberknocker D&D campaign is comprised.

 

It sounds like you've made some good choices in your pary, with almost all of the bases covered and leaning heavily to combat characters. That's what it takes to survive and prosper in this game. Make sure that even the "noncombatants" take on a strong supporting role in a fight and you'll do well.

Make sure that a couple of charcters, one of the fighters with a reach weapon, and either the cleric or another warrior type have combat reflexes. If you don't then the first time an enemy wins initiative he will run past everyone while they're flatfooted and kill the sorcerer.

Also remember that you need someone to function as a spokesperson. That could be your rogue, though I've found that if you only have one rogue it is best for that character to put the skill points into becoming a trap finder and lock opener. It could also be your cleric, the paladin, or even the ranger.

Yep, the Ranger. You can make a high charisma half elven bard at first level, select the negotiator feet, and put all of your skill points into dialogue options like sense motive and diplomacy. You need to use both alot at the low levels. This character has a bonus to diplomacy from being half-elven, another stacking bonus from the feat, and a bonus from charisma in addition to the skill points. Then at second level multi-class him into a ranger, choosing human as your favored enemy to get another bonus to the dialogue skills. You'll also fight plenty of humans at low level, so it's definately not a wasted choice.

This build maximises low level personal interaction skills and trades one level of ranger (he's not the main fighter anyway) for a couple of decent 1st level bard benefits like the inspirationbal songs, which he can use even after multiclassing to benefit the party for the rest of the game.

Meanwhile you groom either the cleric or Paladin to take over as spokesperson after a couple more levels. I've found that if you start the paladin out as a lawful good fighter for the bonus feats at first and second level, and while he's a fighter you build intimidate up to the maximum and sense motive the best that you can, when you need to strong arm some lying NPC you can just switch who's doing the talking. After you multiclass the fighter into a paladin at third level, you can build up his diplomacy to a level that will surpass the bard/rangers, at which point he takes over all of the initial dialogues.

So you don't have the ranger until second level, and don't have the paladin until third, but the dialogue quests get you enough experience to get them to second level right away, and to third level much faster.

 

Wow...that does sound darn complicated. Haha.

Guess I will have to either read more into the manual OR just brute force most of the way through the game.

 

I have just two initial words of advice -> Recruit Elmo.

My advice is simple. Just remember to have a balanced party of 5 PC characters with a party leader who has good social skills [sense motive, diplomacy, bluff, gather information, and intimidate].

Parties tend to be something like this.
Fighter (obvious) + Ranger [or Barbarian] (obvious) + Rogue (locksmith) + Cleric (healer) + Wizard (roomspells)

After you get used to playing the game you can try other mixtures of classes and ideas.

 

Thanks! I'll try to make it out as best as i could.

 

krunch, I agree completely that the CO8 mods have improved the game immeasurably. The basic game was buggy as heck, and the mods have fixed the bugs to make it playable. Also, the additions to story line, new encounters, and new NPCs and equipment have made it a much better game from the role playing perspective. The Circle of Eight rocks!

But yes, it has become an arms race in some aspects. Second level fighters as bandits where there were 0 level bandits in the PnP module is the first example that springs to mind. Like I said, the module was designed so that a first level party had a good chance of clearing the moathouse. Now you need to be second level before you even go near it.

That makes it necessary to do all of the fedex stuff, or play like a ruinscape munchkin and wander around killing things for experience before you can get down to the story at hand. If you don't make characters that are built solely to be more efficient killers, than you can forget about surviving most of the battles now, unless you are leveling up enough to compensate. This makes some choices for character developement that would be great in a more role-playing oriented setting impossible since you need to be focused on squeezing out an extra point of damage or attack bonus or you won't survive thee battles.

The increased difficulty of the encounters means you have to toughen up your party to survive, and then you get much more experience and equipment from these encounters, which means the next one must be even tougher, requiring the cycle of munchkinism to spiral upwards yet again. It's the one drawback to making encounters harder, which is that what doesn't kill the PCs makes them stronger, and whatever the enemy had to increase their power is now in the PCs inventory.

Sounds like an arms race to me.

Of course just because I don't agree with you on every point doesn't mean I don't think you're great. I'm still looking forward to your mod release like a kid on Christmas eve .

 

By the way, one more question here. How does "Coup de Grace" works in ToEE? I only know it kind of works automatically in NWN. Here in ToEE, I see it as one of the attack options, very much like Trip as well.

 

Thank you for the vote of confidence.

 

Coup De Grace is not automatic. You have your character stand next to a monster that is out-cold or unconscience and you select Coup De Grace during that character's fight turn to do a Coup De Grace attack on the monster.

For example, you have to knock a Troll on its duff and it be out cold and prone on the ground. Then, you are required to have your character use Coup De Grace in an attack and kill the Troll. Otherwise, the Troll regens and stands back up.

 

I assume this would be used against monsters that do not die after combat (all are at least -1 and below in HP.)? Or could I use it against monsters who I tripped/greased/proned for any reasons.

 

Cool, I didn't know you could take out Trolls like that.

 

The best way to take out trolls is with Monster Summoning IV, by conjuring in a Fire Mephit and running like hell!