Paladins

well i always thought the paladin becoming fallen for being with a someone that took part in the drinking contest was to much. well if your going to go that route ted, dont forget to put the rangers in there too. also there should be quests to regain thier previous status. the old druid was even harder to play than the paladin and easier to fall. with the way the druid is done now it might be pretty hard to find a reason for them to screw up so bad as to become fallen.

 

well ted a NE druid might hunt animals as a way to control over population, hell any of them except maybe a NG druid might for that reason. they would have to do somthing that upsets the balance nature and is against thier alignment. hunting animals doesnt really do either. now creating undead would do it lol, course i know they cant do that. i would think it would have to be something closer to the fallen druids of BGII

 

IMO - (1) Purposefully tormenting animals should cause a fallen status for Druids. Killing animals for no particular reason should cause a fallen status for Druids. However, hunting for food and survival [to eat meat and make clothes, weapons, etc] and hunting to reduce over population of animals should be allowed without causing a fallen status. If one population of animals increases unattended too much, that impacts the food chain and survival of other animals in an area, alligators are a prime example. (2) Committing arson in the woods should cause a fallen status for Druids. However, controlled cutting of trees should not cause a fallen status for Druids. If you do not have controlled cutting of timber, that will lead to major problems when there are forest fires.

[EDIT] To keep this short and to the point, I am saying there should be a controlled management of wooded areas and the related animals that Druids should either be in charge of or be in an advisory consultant position concerning the protection of woodlands and animals. Druids would be interested in protecting the environment, as in the big picture involving a woodlands area. Maybe there might be one Druid faction that tries to enforce no killing of any animals, whatsoever, and no cutting of any trees, no exceptions. However, I am talking about Druids, in general. Finally, if Druids avoid and do not look out for the best interests of a woodlands environment, that should cause them to fall.

 

Right on. Killing animals for food & clothing is okay; for profit, it's basically murder.

And the whole other debate was about the paladin being responsible enough to know that the conduct of the people he/she was associating with was bringing discredit upon them & their faith; Their own action of not walking away when the carousing started was what got them in trouble, not the fact that others were doing it.

 

Until there is a general consensus on how a paladin should behave and modded into the game the debate is senseless. I don't know how much .dlg scripting it would take, i would assume a lot. Is there even enough interest to even do this? Are there enough players who use or would use a paladin if there where some known, consistant rules to play by?

 

That's why Ted is asking...read a few posts back re: karma. He is asking for input so that he gets it at least close to what the majority will accept in the implementation of his proposed system. Now's your chance to chime in.

 

That's fair enough in a PnP Spike but in the ToEE system it comes across as being a little too extreme.

Don't really want to get involved in the monthly paladin thread though

 

Many years ago, I played a paladin of Ra and he was a holy-roller do-gooder who would do no wrong. The DM held me to that standard and even introduced Stormbringer into the game to tempt me. Paladins should be held to a higher standard, but too strict requirements would discourage players from using them. Witnessing a drinking contest in a pub, that is a common occurence, is not a reason to fall. I had a NG party with a paladin and went to the brothel and he ran off into a corner and didn't participate in any way. He didn't fall either. The action/inaction of the paladin should dictate wether he falls. Allowing an innocent to be hurt or killed, no way. Associates mingling with the ladies, a reminder of poor behavior, but it's part of life and society. A paladin can live their personal lives at a higher standard but they can't control society in general and have a limited affect on the overall enviorment.

 

The problem is incorporating these things into the game engine. It becomes VERY difficult for the engine to determine the motive of the paladin (or druid as above) in these circumstances. Any time that a DM would have to make a decision and interact with the PC on such a level, the game engine is going to have a problem with it.

 

I disagree. The difference in killing for food or to wear the clothing yourself vs killing to sell the food and pelts to other people is no different.

Money isn't evil. Harvesting animals for money to be used for other things - say, for example, to purchase items that you can't get from animals (e.g. grains, cloth, etc) is not morally questionable.


Now... I'd expect a druid or a ranger to show restraint. If they're hunting (for any reason, including directly feeding and clothing people) an animal to extinction, I'd have a problem with it.

 

Ituron's Law: If a thread goes on for more than 10 posts, it's off-topic.