OK, I have searched the threads and found SOME info, but I am missing some thing I think. WHERE does the +1 on attacks and damage show from the Bard's Inspire Courage? It does NOT show in the rolls log when either I hit or miss an opponent when under the effects of Inspire courage. I am not sure this thing is working right, but I see references in old threads about it, and about the extra +1 at level 8 Bard not working....that would indicate that the first +1 has been tested and found to work, so where am I missing it? It doesn't even say "+1 From Inspire Courage, does nto stack with...." like I thought it may, it is just not in the breakdown of a hit or miss at all. Next- how does Fascinate work in this game? According to the spell description, there should be a save for the bad guys, BUT I notice all the lower baddies, say anything from Ettin down, seem to be fascinated without the "saving throw failed" thingy popping up above their heads, and when I tried to Fascinate a Salamander, I KNOW nothing popped over his head like "Target immune" or "Unaffected due to Monster Immunity" or anything like that, nor "Saving throw successful" but yet he was not affected, and my Bard's turn was used. Any help on this is appreciated y'all.
I definitely saw the +1 applied to my rolls. Don't forget that your allies have to be able to hear the song for a full round before it takes effect - Inspire Courage does not start working as soon as you use it, unlike most similar abilities. The allies must be within 30 feet (about the diameter of six Medium creatures lined up as close together as the game will allow, in the case of ToEE) the whole time to be inspired, at least as I read the PnP rules. Once the required one round has passed, you will see a new condition, Inspired, added to the characters affected, and you will see the bonus on the rolls window. As for stacking, it's a Morale bonus, so it doesn't stack with Bless or Prayer, for example. That could be the problem too. The best Bard build is an archer, but you don't want to hang back TOO far, because it's definitely good to be within Inspire Courage range of everyone. It's a VERY good ability, but it can indeed be tricky to get working right.
When I use Inspire Courage, it seems to work fine, other than the fact that it doesn't go up in power like it should. I hadn't noticed the game waiting a full round before the effects are applied. That was the rule in 3rd Ed, but in 3.5 the effects are supposed to occur immediately. I normally have my bard inspire courage outside of combat. The game seems to let the bard "continue singing" until he casts a spell, uses a different bardic music ability, falls unconscious/dies, changes maps, or rests. So there's no reason to wait until you're in combat to use it if you're inside a dungeon. Actually, Prayer is a luck bonus, so they should stack. I agree with you here. They don't have the combat abilites to go toe to toe with most baddies, but give them point-blank shot, precise shot, rapid shot, a good Dex and a Holy bow and they'll take good-sized chunks out of the baddies while "cheering" the party on. Plus they've got enough buff and debuff spells to lend a hand in the bigger fights. I generally go for a mix of charms/enchantments, debuffs and healing spells with my bards. Being able to Charm that hulking fighter, or even send him to the ground with serious case of the giggles is nice and frees up the clerics and mages to make with the healing and hurty spells.
I never noticed that, but checking the SRD, you are absolutely correct. That's a good idea. The only time I used it was in an ironman game where everyone died at level 2, so I didn't have time to do much experimenting. But as for the one round delay, it definitely occurred when I had my bard sing as her first action in combat. Never tried it outside of combat. I stand corrected. There was a time when I knew most of this stuff cold, but evidently it has long passed.
I like having a Bard around, but I tend to use the Bard in combat mostly as an emergency medic. My cleric is usually too busy swinging or buffing to be healing. The Bard can get a high Tumbling skill which helps move into trouble areas and move out of them, much better than my cleric. The Bard is also a great buffer, especially Heroism which lasts practically forever. Of course fascinate is very useful, and I bet intimidate will be equally useful to draw AoO. I really don't see the justification in devoting feats to make the Bard an archer, since they don't get too many feats at all and Spell Focus Enchantment and Greater is almost a necessity for Hideous Laughter and the other powerful Enchantment spells. So for me the surprise use of the Bard has been on the spot healing, even though the only healing spell I get is CLW. Face, healer, charmer, merchant, scout, decoy, flanker, buffer and now I guess archer! Whatever you need whenever you need it, bards rock! Cheers, Dai
Thanks for the input guys, I really like the idea of Archer/backup healer as well as Cheerleader. I will look again at the breakdown of the rolls- it SHOULD show in the roll window breakdown of a hit or miss right? Anyone gonna comment of how Fascinate works in this game?
Fascinate lets you stop one creature from taking actions, kinda like a hold person effect, but the creature will no longer be facsinated if you attack. It works well on the Ogre in level 1 of the temple (with all those goblins) to take him out of the fight while you dispatch the goblin's and re-group to attack the Ogre.
Yes, Allyx, that I know. Thanks again, though. What I had originally asked though, was does Fascinate actually get a saving throw in this game, and (didn't quite ask this part) is there a HD limit cap on it? Has anyone noticed some creature making or failing a save -or getting the notice that they are somehow immune (like from monster immunity) from Fascinate? Could, for instance, the Salamander that I tried to Fascinate, been immune because it was an "Outsider", if indeed it WAS an "Outsider." And if so, why did I not see any pop up over the Salamander's head to that effect?
I guess you probably want a modder or someone who has actually looked at the game code to answer your question. I know Fascinate appears to "work." Even though there is no anouncement, when it works the hover text shows the monster with a Fascinate status if they failed the save, and their turn skips. Fascinate is a DC check based on your Bard's Perform skill, with a bonus (of I believe +4) if the target isn't humanoid. So there shouldn't be a HD limit and it should work on most monsters except undead and constructs (and maybe outsiders). I know it works on animals (such as bears and giant crayfish) abberations and the ice drakes. So if you get a high performance skill (especially with the feat Skill Focus: Perform) it should work nearly all the time. For me the rolls tab doesn't break down any of the rolls. It just tells me whether the action succeeded or not. Is it supposed to do more than that? Also, instead of spending the feats and crafting on archery, why not just craft a Wand of Fireballs and turn your Bard into a demimage, if you need some artillery bombardment? Cheers, Dai
Yes it does more, if you click on the text that is highlighted in blue, it will bring up a full breakdown of the action in question, result from the dice, and all modifiers.
Update- Fascinate seems to work a bit different than the PnP rules- For instance, it works in combat. Also, I have never been able to get a "success" or "failure" notification at the time of casting, but it is VERY useful when it does succeed, and it does show above the enemies head when it succeeds, when it fail, the initiative hourglass just turns gray, but doesn't lock up the game thank goodness. It does seem to only work for one round in combat, and I say this because I have Fascinated trolls and ettins, and then, though nobody tageted or hit them, they were not in the effect the next round- but they did lose ONE action, so that was good. Could this be the game's way of having the effect not really work well in combat? Next thing- Inspire courage- before I said that the +1 does not show in the breakdown of the rolls, well that was true, but I have found it in the breakdown of my characters "To Hit" attack bonuses on their character sheet!! So I guess in the rolls breakdown it would hsve been already factored into the "Inital Value" part of the to hit.
I've used fascinate on Ogres in the past, very handy. I seem to have a vague memory of it going more than one round, but I could be mistaken.
the first time i took down the giant in the meadows, i fascinated him and got my barbarian/rogue to backstab him while the rest just attacked him normally. he only managed to get one hit in on my fighter before he went down. i got it to last two rounds and it probably would have lasted longer if i hadn't attacked.
