Culbert and Luz can be killed and looted!!!

Yippee! Finally get to finish my game with my current party. Got to see an extra end-slide with the death of Luz!! And of course satisfied my initial mission to kill Zugg with Thrommel and got to see his special endslide as a helper too! Thanks everyone for your party building tips!

P.S Should there be a Culbert death endslide too as well which may not be placed in the game? I still got the Culbert and Luz meeting together endslide with the banishment of luz endlslide before that. Shame that Culbert was slain and my party cannot claim credit for it! *laughs*

Oh yes, Culbert's spirtual hammer that was looted from his body, is it maul or hammer proficiency? I took both but still my cleric attack bonus did not benefit from them. Hmmm..any ideas? And oh it's 2 handed.

 

So, is it a good idea to finish the game with Thrommel? Is the end slide worth it?

And how do you keep him in the party? Doesn't he leave as soon as you exit the dungeon once? And if you kept him in the party- presumably just never leaving the dungeon after getting him- you would never get Scather, right? Not that I actually use that Uber-Sword...

 

In a fair'n'square, by the book game you wont kill Iuz, let alone St.Cuthbert. Massive use of the console is needed. If you pick up Thrommel just as you finish level 3 and don't leave the dungeon you're okay. Have suit of platemail+3 and metaltowershield+3, and a ring of protection ready for him. A Belt of strength+6 and Amulet of health+6 would be nice also. The cleric should have the same with HolyMace+3 and RighteousMight. Then, if your lucky, you might get Iuz. As many times i've played, it's only happened once. The cleric got a critical with the mace that did him. But, basically, discussing max consoled out games is a waste.

 

Just my opinion of things, based on how I read it; trying not to re-hash old debates, etc. on alignment, rules & things like that.

*Ahem.

St. Cuthbert is Lawful Good, his worshippers are LG & LN; the Swords are Chaotic Good, and don't function properly for CN. My take is that they were made to fight evil, thus the good is the more important aspect of their alignment, not the law vs chaos angle. It was previously discussed that Thrommel wasn't a paladin, but was more likely a CG Cavalier, so I'm not even going to delve deeply into the possibility that there was a misprint, and those swords should be LG. If that were the case, then I'm sure you'd agree that there is no way they'd hurt St. Cuthbert. Anyone doing so would suffer an alignment shift, and the sword would give 'em a jolt. Thrommel's daddy was a Paladin; and he is the heir aparrent to TWO kingdoms full of LG (& some LN) folk. Hazen, the Shepherd of the Faithful (Cleric Lv19) & his most powerful allies (including the Plar of Veluna) are both LG, and Thrommel is going to marry Jolene, daughter of the Plar. Would they have a king who was Chaotic? Would they be even be allowed to marry if he wasn't at least the same alignment, not to mention being a member of her Church? I doubt it, myself. The simple folk of Hommlet have to worry over which faith to practice before wedding, and I submit to you that the same standard (or probably a higher one...) is expected of those who would be their leaders, or else there'd be some trouble. I still think he's a Paladin, not merely a CG Cavalier, and that the swords which are most definetly good ought to be lawful as well.

 

St. Cuthbert is Lawful Neutral, in 3.5 actually. In 1st Ed he's listed as Lawful Good (Neutral). Anyone's guess as to what that actually means.

 

I recall that being stated in an earlier discussion. It's an inconsistency that's resulted from the conversion of the PnP mod to the 3.5 rules. It's up to us to make it make sense as best we can given the constraints imposed by trying to mod an imperfect program with imperfect methods. Whatever is done will have to suffice, and those who can do it will have to decide, based partly on input from the community, of course & what works best to make the game better.

:cool2:

Guessing about LG(N)? My guess is that some of his beliefs aren't strictly good; they just haven't crossed the threshold into the realm of evil. They are still above the line marked by Neutrality.

 

Yes, I've recently experienced this "incredible turn of events" myself recently. My
guess is that is has to do with Hedrack's condition (dead, or almost dead) when Iuz is summoned.

I was stunned to find that two 9th level characters armed with scather and a holysword +3 and equipped with stoneskin spells were a match for ToEE Iuz. Go figger.

For anyone who wants to know, my cleric palidan had the holysword and my barbarian/druid/ranger had scather. My fighter has a longsowrd +3 and a much better attack bonus than the cleric/palidan. But for some reason, he couldn't hit Iuz to save his life. Iuz seems to have some sort of vulerability to holy weapons, because the palidan/cleric landed several hits including a critical 50+ hp strike!!!

 

It'd be a call for a DM, I think...trouble is, we know that won't happen with this game. My thoughts are that Thrommel being a probable worshipper of St. Cuthbert aided in giving this impression to Fragarach, at least (personalities & all). The other lesser blades would not be as likely to be affected by things like this, as they are less powerful & couldn't hit anything beyond their +2 rating, anyway (or +3; see below). So, Scather & Wee Jas...it would hurt her if +2 weapons can. Frag & Wee Jas...depends.

This +2 rating is per the T1-4 module. BUT, according to the Unearthed Arcana, the lesser swords are +0 (non-magical) to creatures of differing alignments, and become +3 in the hands of like aligned creatures...so: It's +3 to hit if wielded by a CG character, who uses it to attack a LG(N) deity; the sword recognizes the alignment shift resulting from the attack; the wielder now has a +0 non-magical sword to fight with, which can no longer hurt the deity. But alignments wouldn't necessarily shift merely because of an attack; they probably would if the character was of evil intent in the attack on a mostly good deity.

Things a computer program would CTD trying to figure out; or give cause to bring out the 'rules lawyer' in all of us...including me.

No worries, mate! :beer:

 

Regardless of the rules, it'd sure be fun to play in the game and be able to take out St. Cuthbert and Iuz, too.

With respect to the rules, it's an idea that the sword that is more than just a magic sword...its like ego and id of an artifact level or type of weapon. The plus changes to THAC0 and damage and whatnot should be scripted, appropriately.