This is probably known already, but I haven't seen it mentioned yet, so... I'm running ToEE patch 2 w/ the Co8 Mod pack. If an NPC under the suggestion spell is killed in combat by an enemy, they remain as NPCs but the Suggestion charm effects wear off, so they essentially become permanent NPCs. Moreover, if the NPC is a lvl 0 monster (such as say, a Seahag or a Minotaur), when they are raised from the dead, they end up with around 180,000 exp which is enough to take them to level 19. Completely unrelated, there are also some bugs with the metamagic feat Heighten Spell: Spells don't heighten into the correct spells. I'm currently having a lot of fun with my evil Asian Hookers Suggestion party (i.e. seducing Terjon and having him kill Calmert, or seducing Marek and having him kill Alethea while Meleny, in the party, watches. Poor Hommlett). I've compiled a list of most of the NPC stats for use with Suggestion if people are interested in such a thing. Suggestion rocks and really makes ToEE stand out from other RPGs. Some other "inconsistencies" and other strangae things I've run into: A lot of the NPCs have Deities that are unavailable to PCs. The ones I've found include: Zuggtmoy (Air, Earth, Fire, Plant, Water) Old Faith (Animal, Earth, Plant, Sun) Procan (Air, Water, Trickery) Ralishaz (Chaos, Luck, Trickery) and assume Lareth is Lolth (Evil, Magic) Here is another problem: a lot of the NPC clerics (such as the Ogre Shaman) don't have deities, so they are actually unable to advance as clerics. Other clerics have deities but no domain spells. Strangely, Allerem and some of the other Fire Clerics have Burning Hands as a Cleric Spell, not a Domain Spell. Chanda, the elven cleric imprisoned with the Gnomes, evidently lost her faith. Burne's Badgers seem to be level 3 Rogue AND Fighter at the same time (while still being a level 3 character), and are pretty awesome. A cool thing I found while torturing the good folk of Hommlett is there is a lot of uses for Sleight of Hand, which was really cool. And the reason why Terjon always kicks your ass is because he has ridiculous stats, +10 base attack and +10 natural armor. He's a lot easier to Suggest than Clamert though, and I have no clue why that is. This game rocks when you play evil! Cheers, Dai
That's way cool dude! I have never used suggestion myself that much because I always have full NPCs slots. I just discovered recently that you can intimidate the Troll chief in the temple..what's his name? Olgish...something..ya, after you intimidate him to hand over his necklace and jeweled belt, you can force him to join you too if your intimidate skills are above 17 I think. He's much better than that Scorrp, Hill Giant, As the troll chief kickass regenerating bonus too! Is it possible to charm the jugglenaunt? That tentacles grey war machine in the water temple? I think that would be ultimately the coolest controllable npc, aside from a Balor demon of course...heheh...
I am just starting on the Temple NPCs so I haven't tried the Juggernaut yet. I don't think it would work though because the spell doesn't work on Giant Crayfish (not humanoid). Very interesting what the game considers "humanoid" though. Vodyanoi from the Water Node work and are some of the best NPCs I've found thus far: Vodyanoi Level 0 No deity Chaotic Evil Str 28! Dex 13 Con 19 Int 18 Wis 11Cha 13 Base Attack +6 Natural Armor +7 Frost damage No feats Sea Hags are also pretty good, with lower Strength but higher base attack and natural armor: Seahag Level 0 No Deity (I think Chaotic Evil) Str 20 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 18 Wis 13 Cha 10 Alertness Base Attack +10 Natural Armor +10 Eye of the Deep has pretty freaking good stats, but already starts as a level 10 Wizard with no spells and no feats! Eye of the Deep Level 10 Wizard No Deity (I think Chaotic Evil) Str 18 Dex 18 Con 20 Int 18 Wis 18 Cha 18 Base Attack +7 Natural Armor +10 I haven't figured out how to get monster innate spell abilities to work yet. In Hommlett, the biggies are Terjon, Calmert and Jaroo. Black Jay is a decent archer (and he's CG so you can put Scather on him) and Ostler Gundigoot has all the right stats for a decent paladin. Jaroo Ashstaff Druid 10 True Neutral Str 18 Dex 18 Con 18 Int 10 Wis 20 Cha 14 (approximately) Alertness Combat Casting Combat Reflexes Dodge Greater Spell Focus Evocation Mobility Spell Focus Evocation Spell Penetration Two Weapon Fighting Two Weapon Defense Terjon Cleric 10 St. Cuthbert (Law, Protection) Str 20 Dex 18 Con 18 Int 18 Wis 18 Cha 18 (Approx.) Alertness Cleave Combat Casting Great Cleave Power Attack Toughness +10 Base Attack! +10 Natural Armor! Calmert Cleric 10 Deity: ???? (Healing! which is not a St. Cuthbert domain!) Str 20 Dex 18 Con 18 Int 14 Wis 18 Cha 14 (Approx.) Cleave Combat Casting Great Cleave Improved Initiative Power Attack I've been trying to figure out how to keep Countess Talihi while getting her reward at the same time, because she'll be nuts with Scather: Countess Talihi Elf Fighter 4 Wizard 3 Deity Corellon Larethian Chaotic Good Str 15 Dex 20 Con 19 Int 16 Wis 11 Cha 13 Alertness Cleave Combat Casting Dodge Improved Initiative Spell Penetration Suggestion works best, of course, on NPCs with low Wisdom. Next time I go through, if I want to powergame, I'd probably go with mostly clerics, bards and druids and pick up monster NPCs for the Fighters and Wizards. There's no way a PC can be a better fighter/ rogue or fighter/ wizard than a Vodyanoi or a Minotaur. I can't wait to finish Nulb and the Temple because it seems those NPCs are more finished (i.e. have unique stats) than the Hommlett NPCs. Cheers, Dai
Cheers Dude! Very nice and handy list your got there! I tried experimenting in Hommlet with the Suggestion spell but I can't cast it in a full tavern room and expect to walk away with a mindless slave without engaging in a crazy combats with the rest of the denizens there!!! In the end, I'm always forced to be the Butcher of Hommlet! Any Ideas how to charm the tavern master or barmaid? P.S Jaroo is good! But after he's charmed, his damn bears from behind mauled my wizard to death because he's flatfooted after the casting of the spell in combat. Oh ya...I casted Crushing Despair first and it work wonders for the following Suggestion spell! I think Crushing Despair lowers WIS/INT and CHA to 1 if it's successful.
It shouldn't. Feeblemind does that. Crushing Despair should only apply a -2 penalty to all rolls. It would help make someone easier to charm, but not to that degree. Mind Fog is a great spell for Enchanters. It's an area effect that gives a -10 penalty to Will saves of anyone who fails the initial saving throw. Cast it, see who blows their saves and then follow it up with an almost-guaranteed charm spell.
Well, I know you can at least delay the rabid villagers by casting Charm Person on everyone else. As long as you don't kill anyone, you wont be a butcher. I'm not sure if they go hostile once the charm goes off though (like it does in BG2). So make sure you have a safehouse in Nulb first. As far as Jaroo, I think one of the bears is his Animal Companion, so as soon as you get control of him, you can dismiss one of them. Yeah, those bears are nasty. I'm still having problems with Talihi (who has 9 Con, not 19 Con btw). She disappears (goes invisible) even if she's still in the party, so I might have to give up on her (rather have the cash) and mindjack someone else. Hm, I wonder if Black Jay's corpse is still lying around in Hommlett. Cheers, Dai
Yup! My honest mistake! Feeblemind does what I descibed Crushing Despair to be. And yes..I'm beginning to love mind fog too! *laughs* What a great spell! By the way, have you fellas encounted an assassin npc with a ninja-like portrait in random encounters? He's cool! I think I got him after I sold Lareth stuff in Hommlet, I think I sold his boots, armour and rod which has his name on them. Anyway, I 'Suggested' that assassin and check out his gear, got a letter from that elven bandit leader Redhand and instant update of my world map to show the temple. Yippee! Oh ya, as for my new 'suggested' assassin, he's a lvl 10 rogue with great feats and stats of Str 14 Dex 20, with magical dagger and rapier!!!
