Noob question - go easy on me :-D

First of all: I never played the game before. I just installed it and I'm about to decide which patches to add, if any, beyond the official patch 2.

About that fancy looking 3.0.4 C8 mod pack:

- This is my main question: Were the "known bugs" and "features to ignore" on that list ALREADY in the official game as per the official patch 2, or are they introduced by installing the mod pack ?

- Don't all those modifications to game stats and all cause balance problems ? Like, you try to improve X thingy but without realizing you're screwing Y thingy elsewhere. For instance, I don't like the level uncapper, if the devs felt like limiting the game to a certain level they probably had their reasons for game balance etc etc.

See my doubt here ? I'd love to have bugs, broken quests, dialog which doesn't trigger properly etc fixed, of course, but I'm not so hot about having arbitrary modifications to the game's balance and feel as developed by the authors.

Is there a "patch only" fix which fixes existing and known bugs but don't mess up the game otherwise ?

Thanks for your time, and sorry if any of these sound silly, I told ya I'm new. :doublethu

 

Thanks

I didn't even touch the game yet, so I really wouldn't know how limited it may be from release... I guess what you say makes sense.

Just that one last question I'd really, really like to know the answer to, though:

Were the "known bugs" and "features to ignore" on the 3.0.4 mod pack list ALREADY in the official game as per the official patch 2, or are they introduced by installing the mod pack ?

Thanks again!

 

Ok.

So you managed to sell me the 3.0.4 patch. I just installed it. :doublethu

But can you sell me Livonya's patch ? :mrhappy:

I mean, so if I got it right it has the fixes from Moebius own patch plus a bunch of others. Fine. But I read stuff like: "turn off auto-save or hell breaks lose" and "rewrote all the enemy AI" and I get scared. Shouldn't I ?

The question this time is: Should I go all the way and install Liv Beta or be happy and content with C8v304 + Moebius ?

Please remember ! I never played this game before, I'm not a powergamer, and I'm not particularly interested in new features or alterations to how the game works (when it works, at least), and I don't really want level uncappers nor max hit points leveling nor super-new-items and weapons nor... get the idea ? I'd just like some of the game's infamously numerous bugs fixed... preferably without adding new ones... and hence my interest in the patches and me coming here to bother you with all these questions.

Patience please, I'm almost finished bugging you people. :doublethu

 

Akalabethian, the question I would put to you is do you want to play the ToEE Troika released, or do you want to play the ToEE that Troika would have released if Atari had given them the time to actually finish the game? Most of what has gone on here at Co8 has been finishing the game, whether that has meant fixing bugs, making the game conform more to true D&D 3.5 rules, or implementing things that Troika started to put in but left unfinished. Along the way we have added a few things that make the game more enjoyable, but always with balance in mind. There is one munchkin or powergamer mod here, the Vicks & Wedge Mod, but no one recommends it, and it is definately not the standard Co8 fare.

You shouldn't be scared of Liv's Mod. Liv did add a little bit of new content to the game, and upped the difficulty level some by tweaking the AI (so enemies would act with a little common sense and use their abilities) and making traps actually mean something if you set them off. But mostly what she did was fix bugs and inconsistencies. Most of the new content you can just ignore (if you can spot it - the implementation is pretty seamless). You don't even have to turn off the autosave. The reason you are told to do that is because if you load from the autosave, certain scripts may not run and you might miss out on some stuff, but it doesn't break the game. The bottom line is that everybody here that has played Liv's Mod would never play the game without it again. That is why it became the basis for all the modding here at Co8.

Since you seem to be overwhelmingly concerned about the new content, I would say play the game through once without Liv's Mod, but then definately play the game again with it. I'm sure you will appreciate the improvements Liv made.

 

I'd say Blue's got it right. If you are anything like most of us here, you're going to fall in love with the combat aspect of this game, and play it through many times. The new content of mods you install later will just add flavor. Fire the thing up now, give it a run through, and you'll be able to play over again in the future with different party mixes, added material, etc.

And maximize your playing enjoyment.

Happy Hunting!

 

Some good points made, I suppose.

Not withstanding that:

- I played maybe 3... maybe 4 computers games all the way through more than once in my life. Add to that that I've been playing computer games for about twenty years, and you'll realize that there's a possibility I might not be necessarily like "most of you here", as you have put it yourself. And that may have a lot to do with my doubts and questions, because that may be something that I figured long before you had to state that you play the same computer game all the way through over and over again. Please do note that this isn't meant as an insult in any way, but as an assessment of reality.

- "The ToEE that Troika would have released if..." is not necessarily the same as "the ToEE Troika released" augmented by fan home made mods. Regardless of how well the latter mean. Make of that what you will, and again let me assure you it's not meant as an insult of any kind, but a simple assessment of reality.

But no matter. All the feedback helped me in taking my decision.

Parting words: corporate greed and marketing parasites have destroyed the game industry and the concept of quality game developing as we (I, for sure) once knew it. Damn them all to hell.

Thank you everyone, it's been... enlightening. :doublethu

 

okay balls in your court.. I unsuprisingly agree with everything said here..

oh one thing you should know.. from what i gather im not the only professional programmer here..*as in CRPG design/programming.. in silly valley*though ive long since gotten out nor am i the only person to be playing d&d since 76 or there abouts and Im alomost positive im not alone in being a gamer since napoleonic minis ,avalon hill (various)and chivalry and soccery and tunnels and trolls were the only choices... and im certainly not the only person here to build an altair 8800 or burn his own circut boards with his dads enlarger... because the closest thing to a pc when i started was a pdp 8 or 11 ..

i mean it the people here impress me not only in knowledge but in skill (i admit i came here expecting the usual mix of good fair and sucks mods.. and modders with one outstanding or really good... but thats not the case everyone here cares.. everyone i know of trys to tighten code.. everyone here.. trys to not twink but improve and adhere.. to D&D design.. hell they even share info ask openly for advice and dble checks... agetain is a great example .. his tools are beautiful..and his knowledge great(he has studied arcanum *the rossetta stone kinda for troikas toee..* and im used to seeing games specificlly gold box and later knock offs with dungeon master in the title... in there naked developement state..
this is not your avrg modding community so take the co8 challange try toee un modded and then with liv and teds..and allyxs..items and shop.. and if your a comp geek or wonk /nerd as i was called(pre geek era..
if your not convinced maybe your not paying attention.

 

Tsk, tsk

O ye of most aggressive and mocking demeanor, for is it not written in the history of Man:

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Akalabeth

"Akalabeth: World of Doom, released in 1980 for the Apple II, is recognized as one of the first commercial computer role-playing games (...) Since Akalabeth was written in BASIC, it was a simple matter for users to modify the source code to suit their needs or desires. For example, the game's magic amulet, which occasionally did unpredictable things like turn a player into a high-powered Lizard Man, could be set to do so with every use, thereby making the player virtually indestructible. One could also set the player's statistics (normally randomly generated and fairly weak to start) to any level desired. As such, Akalabeth offered the precursor to what is now known as cheat codes and mods."

And the Lord was angered, and swore to lay His furious vengeance upon the defilers, and to deliver them righteous punishment for their evil, their chaos and their foulness.

But, O ye of little faith, did I not say already that you managed to convince me with your arguments, which can only make sense and do make sense in our... Brave New... repugnant world of repugnant corporate stupidity ruining games even before they are rushed into release in a half-developed state ?

For I shall install not only the C8 mod pack but also Livonya's patch, and I will know in my heart that it will be as right, and true, and good as it'll ever become. : eace:

 

I said 'if'...obviously, you're not like any one here.

You're an @$$-hole.

Those of us who have been here for a little while try not to insult people, however much of a noob they may pretend to be. And you still continue doing just that...with your smug responses, while simultaneously disparaging those who you claim to be aggressive and mocking towards you. So, my advice is to actually try being non-confrontational, or you can...

...go 'mock' yourself... :finger:


Gaear...I knew you'd have my back...Thanks, Bud.
Ted, I don't think this guy knows what you're talking about. Obviously, he's never read the book or he'd know how to spell it.