Reagants - I mean, material components.

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Shiningted, Jul 16, 2005.

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Add material components where appropriate?

Poll closed Aug 15, 2005.

  1. Yeah, I think we should look into this.

    27 vote(s)
    69.2%

  2. That idea is appalling, the game is complicated enough.

    12 vote(s)
    30.8%
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  1. Shiningted

    Shiningted The Thunder of Justice Administrator

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    Probably shouldn't post back to back polls, but, well, meh.

    As you know, there are certain spells that have material components. Having to swallow a live spider for 'spider climb' is perhaps the most famous, but thats irrelevant for ToEE.

    As we move closer to having higher level spells, the question of introducing these material components should, I think, be revisited. The current situation is that anything over 100gp worth of material component is deducted in money when u cast the spell ('identify' being an obvious example).

    I suggest we introduce material components that are necessary to cast the spells but, once found (or purchased) can be reused. It places a limit on the player, but lets face it, its the PCs who are going to benefit from the new spells coming out (like disintegrate) not the monsters. And it adds a little roll playing element: once you have found the material components (and I am not suggesting they be that hard to find) you feel you have earned those kick-a$$ hi-level spells. And if we allow a few monsters to cast the spells back at us to make the game more challenging, then we know we will capture the material component when we defeat them.

    Another example: I would like to add (read: I would like to lean on Darmargon to add...) the spell 'Analyze Dwoemer', handy little spell and 6th lvl (we are crying out for those). Complicated, but the elements for it are all in the game. It requires a 1500gp gemstone (ruby or sapphire) to work according to the 3.5 rules, though this is NOT consumed in the casting as far as i understand: therefore, to my mind it makes perfect sense the PC be required to have exactly this gem in his/her possession to cast the spell.

    What do people think? Yes, I would be prepared to do the work to introduce this.
     
    Shiningted, Jul 16, 2005
    #1
  2. Old Book

    Old Book Established Member

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    I'd rather handle things by having higher level spells cost gold and/or XP every time you cast them, rather than material components. Inventory management is already enough of a pain as it is.

    That said, if material components do end up going in, are spell component storage bags possible? I'd find the idea less of a problem if it meant losing only one inventory slot.
     
    Old Book, Jul 16, 2005
    #2
  3. Lord Plothos

    Lord Plothos Established Member

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    If there was some way to make something like a pouch that would only take up one spot in the inventory (or use the thieve's pick tools slot), and which kept track of which reagents you had acquired, I think that would be the best option. I don't want my inventory cluttered, but the reagent idea needn't do that.
     
    Lord Plothos, Jul 16, 2005
    #3
  4. Old Book

    Old Book Established Member

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    Y'know, the Golden Skull switches to a new item every time you add another gem, and it doesn't matter which order you add them in. What about a Spell Components Pouch that upgrades to a new pouch each time you add another item? As long as you can add them in any order, that might work.
     
    Old Book, Jul 16, 2005
    #4
  5. Lord_Spike

    Lord_Spike Senior Member Veteran

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    Most (if not all) components get used up in casting the spell, don't they? This might complicate things more than it is worth. Simplify, perhaps, by making the party have to find the new components before getting access to the spell. Charging for components would certainly burn some of that surplus cash, though...
     
    Lord_Spike, Jul 17, 2005
    #5
  6. Lord Plothos

    Lord Plothos Established Member

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    I thought that was part of the initial suggestion. Find it once is enough, for simplicity.
     
    Lord Plothos, Jul 17, 2005
    #6
  7. Shiningted

    Shiningted The Thunder of Justice Administrator

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    Thats a good idea, there can't be more than 10-12 items... although that might mean 12x11x10x9... number of different pouches to accomodate all the different variations :doh: I'll look into it.
    Yeah, thats the basic idea. Find component once, then use ever after.

    The XP burn on high level spells will stay though, as it should.
     
    Shiningted, Jul 17, 2005
    #7
  8. Old Book

    Old Book Established Member

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    Argh! That's a pain. However, this reminds me of the old IE BG1 Item Bag problem.

    Orginally, it was impossible to have Bags of Holding. However, modders came up with a solution that was later integrated into the rest of the IE games. The answer was an item that summonned an invisible shopkeeper; you then "sold" your items to the shopkeeper for 1 gold each, and "purchased" any items you had stored in the bag previously that you wanted to take out (again, for 1 gold each). In that way, you could effectively have bags. Since it is possible to have items that summon a specific creature (the Lamia figurine, the bags of tricks), why not an item with a bag icon that summons a shopkeeper you could "sell" your spell components (and other junk) to? You could then open the bag (i.e. summon the shopkeeper again) before any combat in which you thought you might need your items and buy them back for the minimum fee. I think that to make it you'd need to:
    1) look at the Lamia Figurine, see how it's summonning the Lamia, copy the figurine, switch the new item's Icon to a bag icon.
    2) make a storekeeper (maybe copy Calmert or Brother Smith for this), and, if the file is separate, a store. In the IE it would be a .cre file and a .sto file, but I don't know how ToEE's engine does it.
    3) Set the new Bag Figurine to summon that new Storekeeper, and set him to vanish quicky after being called.

    Note that I have no idea how to do the above in ToEE's engine; jut a suggestion based on the engine I do know.
     
    Old Book, Jul 17, 2005
    #8
  9. darmagon

    darmagon stumbler in the dark

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    Lean on me? The past couple of weeks haven't left me with much time to do a lot of modding. Last weekend was my Calgary Stampede party weekend and this weekend I am helping my cousin refurbish the condo she just bought. During the week at work I have been doing 12-14 hour days so I haven't had the energy. I will look into analyze dweomer though and maybe some 6th level spells tonight and tomorrow.

    Again I will try to have something together by tomorrow night. No promises tho.

    Darmagon
     
    darmagon, Jul 17, 2005
    #9
  10. Lord_Spike

    Lord_Spike Senior Member Veteran

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    I know...I read the post. I'm agreeing with the simplicity aspect...

    :kiss:

    Keep
    It
    Simple
    Stupid
     
    Lord_Spike, Jul 17, 2005
    #10
  11. steelfiredragon

    steelfiredragon Member

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    by all means no.
     
    steelfiredragon, Jul 17, 2005
    #11
  12. Shiningted

    Shiningted The Thunder of Justice Administrator

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    Goodonya!!! But there is absolutely no hurry, take as long as you like. :)

    The issue of keeping track of a material component pouch could easily be overcome by simple flagging, assuming we could create a bag in the first place you could stick stuff in. The shopkeeper is a bit extravagant (imho), but thanks to Agetian's new tool, its entirely doable :) If we didn't restrict it to spell components, but to anything u want to carry around, it might prove to be a great idea (we have had people comment on not having enough inventory slots to even contemplate crafting all the ioun stones, so it would address a definite need).
     
    Shiningted, Jul 17, 2005
    #12
  13. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    It's a nice idea, but maybe easier to make a spell componant pouch to handle uses of inexpensive componants (small spiders, powered iron, owl feathers, bat guano, whatever) and function in this manner for X uses (like a wand) of spells with material componants, and then disappears, so you must spend another 25 gp for a new (full) pouch before casting another spell that needs a material componant. The more expensive componants (100gp pearls, diamond dust worth at least Xgp) would need a merchant who could supply those componants. Otherwise there are only so many pearls and diamonds in the game, you could run out of componants easily.
     
    Allyx, Jul 17, 2005
    #13
  14. devil of all rumors

    devil of all rumors Member

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    Well i am trying to work an a magic mod it`s about 1 wand

    not just a wand can cast any spell nomatter who holds it and has unlimeted charges will be pretty good if i could get it up but seems to be bit o` data still missing but if i do finally get it up and running then i think it will take about 30 mins to download and will take up 2 mb`s sorry can`t find any better downloaders
     
    devil of all rumors, Jul 17, 2005
    #14
  15. Shiningted

    Shiningted The Thunder of Justice Administrator

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    If you need help, ask on the Modding forum. Why not make it a 'wand of Wishes' - that is how the Wish spell is implemented, it lets you cast anything. I dunno about it being unlimited though...
     
    Shiningted, Jul 17, 2005
    #15
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