Raise Dead Scroll not working?

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by maalri, Feb 18, 2006.

Remove all ads!
Page 1 of 2
  1. maalri

    maalri Immortal

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,129
    Likes Received:
    2
    OK, so why can't my 9th level War Cleric use a Raise Dead Scroll?
     
    maalri, Feb 18, 2006
    #1
  2. Kalshane

    Kalshane Local Rules Geek

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2004
    Messages:
    1,653
    Likes Received:
    4
    No idea. I assume his wisdom is 15 or higher? I've never had a problem using the Raise Dead scrolls in the game.
     
    Kalshane, Feb 18, 2006
    #2
  3. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    5,009
    Likes Received:
    255
    The way the game deals with scrolls, wands and potions is really funky, let me explain...

    1) it is the item that casts the spell - not the caster.
    2) if the user of the item is the same class as the spell used by the item, the spell works properly.
    3) items that cast spells as "special_domain" spells (instead of "class_cleric" etc...) work for NPC's.
     
    Allyx, Feb 18, 2006
    #3
  4. jeffh

    jeffh Established Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    0
    Though I couldn't help but notice, they sometimes seem to use the user's parameters, even when they shouldn't. For example, a scroll or potion of Cure Light Wounds should cure 1d8+1 damage every time. But if a character without cleric levels uses it, sometimes it only cures 1 point of damage, and it never cures 9; while if a character with more than one cleric (or druid, or bard) level uses it, it often cures more than 9 points and never cures only 2. It seems to me it must be adding the USER'S relevant class levels, instead of its own.

    Known bug?

    (Not that this explains the original poster's problem, at least not as far as I can see.)
     
    jeffh, Feb 18, 2006
    #4
  5. maalri

    maalri Immortal

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,129
    Likes Received:
    2
    Thanks guys- It IS possible that this cleric has only a 15 Wisdom (using an Average-Joe party) and I presume that an Amulet of Wisdom would not help? Since the stupid thing doesn't let my clerics get higher level spells, I am not sure what good it is, other than skill checks help.

    Or it could be that it wasn't designed for his domain. Either one gives me at least a couple of good reasons why something wasnt working that should have been!

    Thanks again y'all
     
    maalri, Feb 18, 2006
    #5
  6. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    5,009
    Likes Received:
    255
    Ok maybe I should have explained it better, but that is exactly what I'm talking about...
    the item casts the spell, but still uses the user's "caster level" to determine certain effects, if the user has no caster levels then you just get the basic effects (EG cure light wounds would cure 1d6 damage, cure moderate would cure 2d6 ect...), it also explains the reason why bugbears who drink potions of bulls strength have the effect wear off on thier next turn (duration = caster level X 10 rounds, caster level of the bugbears is 0, so... 0 X 10 = 0 rounds) the way around it as I (probably inadequately) described above is to change the item's caster type from regular classes to the domain_special caster type (used for spell like effects) doing this will make the spell work at the spell level spcified in protos.tab (EG 'Magic Missile' domain_special 6 would be cast as a 6th level spell - as if by an 11th level caster).

    This method should also bypass the stat requirement for casters to cast spells from scrolls that are of a higher level than they can cast themselves.
     
    Allyx, Feb 18, 2006
    #6
  7. Kalshane

    Kalshane Local Rules Geek

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2004
    Messages:
    1,653
    Likes Received:
    4
    Well, the stat requirement should be there. You can't cast a spell from a scroll if you don't have the minimum ability score required. Plus, if the caster's level is lower than the level required to cast the spell, there's supposed to be a chance of a mishap.

    ETA: Your cleric's choice of Domains would not restrict his access to normal cleric spells. Domains aren't like a Wizard's school specialization.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2006
    Kalshane, Feb 18, 2006
    #7
  8. Blair

    Blair Unwanted Construct

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't think the mishap possibility was implemented in this system. I experimented with it extensively and pretty much the only penalty for failing to use a scroll properly is... failure to use the scroll properly. (BTW, roll breakdown doesn't even display a caster level check, i.e. for out-of-level Heal scrolls used by a cleric without cap unlock.)

    Honestly, now that Allyx has noted what the problem with potions is, I think we should systematically change them all accordingly! The pathetic bugbears were always on my list of "too bad", but non-cleric PCs and NPCs who can't properly benefit from potions is truly sorry! I had always just given up on using them after level 3 or so, figuring that there was something wrong with the item itself... guess there is. :censored:

    --Blair
    "No, no, no! How many times do I have to say it: first, eye of newt, THEN wing of bat!"
     
    Blair, Feb 19, 2006
    #8
  9. DarkmoonKing

    DarkmoonKing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2024
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Reviving a 20 year old thread because the answer doesn't exist online.

    How do I get this damn thing to work? I'm having my cleric with 20 Wisdom use it but it's just not working. Cleric is only level 2 but when she was level 1 I was able to use the Heal scroll on the dude in Hommlet with no issue. This game is getting to a point where it's just not worth the trouble to play, even with all the "fixes" from CO8 and T+.
     
    DarkmoonKing, Aug 4, 2024
    #9
  10. DarkmoonKing

    DarkmoonKing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2024
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Okay, something is clearly broken here. I went to Terjon and paid 750gp for a raise - and it still said resurrection failed???? What the actual hell?!
     
    DarkmoonKing, Aug 4, 2024
    #10
  11. Pygmy

    Pygmy Established Member Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2010
    Messages:
    751
    Likes Received:
    81
    I notice you are using T+, is the character you are trying to raise by any chance either an aasimar or a tiefling?
     
    Pygmy, Aug 4, 2024
    #11
  12. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    5,009
    Likes Received:
    255
    Oooh, yeah that would do it, those count as Outsiders, not Humanoids.
     
    Allyx, Aug 4, 2024
    #12
  13. DarkmoonKing

    DarkmoonKing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2024
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    thats so dumb lol they're a Human subrace but can't be revived. that would also explain why enlarge person just fizzled. welp, good thing only 5 of my 8 party members are Aasimar :D
     
    DarkmoonKing, Aug 5, 2024
    #13
  14. ithildur

    ithildur Established Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    8
    Aasimar and Tieflings are Outsiders with the Native subtype, which means raise dead should work on them just like standard humanoids. I'm almost certain this is a Temple + issue that for some reason has been overlooked for a while.

    From the 3.5e SRD:
    "Native Subtype
    A subtype applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. Creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane (hence the subtype’s name). Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat and sleep."

    https://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#nativeSubtype

    https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/planetouched.htm
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2024
    ithildur, Aug 6, 2024
    #14
  15. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    12,740
    Likes Received:
    374
    That's news to me, Ithildur - I thought they were just Outsiders who couldn't be raised. Heh.

    Since Aasimars and Tieflings were introduced by Temple+ sounds like that's the problem, but unless these subtle distinctions are introduced, Raise Dead is almost certainly working as intended, only seeing them broadly as Outsiders, not subtly.
     
    Shiningted, Aug 6, 2024
    #15
    ithildur likes this.
Page 1 of 2
Our Host!