Rogue-less Party Viable?

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by hugin7, Aug 28, 2017.

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  1. hugin7

    hugin7 Member

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    Some RPGs grant significant party XP whenever rogues open locks or disarm traps (Baldur's Gate 2 comes to mind). Is this the case with either locks or traps for ToEE?

    I am hoping that, as long as there is no risk of losing XP, a rogue-less party should be viable, since there are spells to open locks, find traps, and detect secret doors. Since only rogues can properly disable traps, is it safe to have a character set them off instead? Are there any traps that are too deadly for this to work, even with protection spells? Finally, if a character sets off a trap, is there any chance to lose the loot within (I seem to recall a game with that issue)?

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    The XP awarded by trapped chests isn't huge, some chests deal a fair chunk of damage, or even poison, but a PC on full health should survive, and there are poison antidotes, I beleive trapped chests give XP awards when they are set off or disarmed, there is one chest late in the temple that can prove deadly, but if you have no rogue there is a talking option to bypass the trap, you just need to find the password.

    A rogueless party should be viable to all non-CN aligned groups... there is a chest that must be picked to advance to the first town on this map, and no other classes have a hope of picking it.
     
  3. hugin7

    hugin7 Member

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    Good feedback, thank you.
     
  4. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    Also, a high reflex save stat, (Dexterity) will help when receiving damage from traps, most allow you to save for half damage.
     
  5. sigofmugmort

    sigofmugmort Established Member Supporter

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    A Knock spell will disarm a trapped chest, I have done a no Rogue party and did not notice any real XP differences by the end of the game
     
  6. hugin7

    hugin7 Member

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    The disarming effect of Knock is a pleasant surprise; it appears to be an undocumented feature: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/knock.htm.

     
  7. Nightcanon

    Nightcanon Garrulous Halfling

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    Agree with other feedback- I can't think of any traps where the "cleric's disarm device" (i.e. spring trap, take damage, cast Heal) isn't an adequate strategy. It's the massed sneak attack dice that make rogues worth playing in this game, imo.
     
  8. Oleg Ben Loleg

    Oleg Ben Loleg Established Member Supporter

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    I actually always take a rogue in my party, and that's not for classical reasons. Unlike in a RPG game like Baldurs Gate a rogue is not really necessary for classical skill use in ToEE. BUT if you understand viable as capable of surviving I found a rogue against the Noble Fire Salamanders extremly viable. Especially in the Fire Node I think i could only survive that fight with a rogue, since he attracted all those nasty fireball that hardly ever hit him because of his excellent Dex saving throws and evasion makes sure you get only half or no damage.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  9. Gehennis

    Gehennis Established Member

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    Entirely possible to play w/o a rogue and if you really want a face man to handle NPC dialogue you could always play a bard, depending on your alignment...
     
  10. sigofmugmort

    sigofmugmort Established Member Supporter

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    A Half-Elven Sorcerer can be a decent face man
     
  11. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    Protection from elements spell really helps with those nasty sally-man-or-durps. :p
     
  12. hugin7

    hugin7 Member

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    Finally had a chance to test this, so here's a bit more info:

    1. Opening locks with a rogue does not award XP.
    2. Disarming traps with a rogue does award XP. However, disarming traps with your face rewards just as much XP!

    It appears that as long as you have the right spells, you should be able to find/open everything without losing any XP.

    In addition, there is an NPC rogue available early in the game and can apparently be added to and removed from the partly as often as you wish without negative consequences. With heavy buffs, I suspect that his skills should be good enough for ToEE's locks/traps.
     
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  13. Daryk

    Daryk Veteran Member

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    He also has a ring of invisibility...
     
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  14. hugin7

    hugin7 Member

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    Indeed he does, but is there any way to separate him from it without killing him?

     
  15. Allyx

    Allyx Master Crafter Global Moderator Supporter

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    Sure, let him heroically defend the party until he falls unconscious, pick up the ring for safe keeping, then heal him back to positive HP.
     
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