Wouldn't it make more sense for a low Charisma (negative modifier) to enhance Intimidate skill (the only class skill for Fighters in ToEE) rather than detract? If I have high CH, obviously I would persuade by using Diplomacy or Bluff; but if I have a low CH, I should be able to "get a discount on ammo on account of my intimidatin' nature." (Jayne Cobb, Firefly). Just sayin' ...
No that wouldn´t make sense. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#charismaCha Charisma is your force of personality and your strength to impress others not just your looks. Having less charisma does not mean that you are more intimidating but that you are less able to get the others to see your way. You don´t get a free wheelchair either for having a low Constitution or other goodies for having low scores.
Myself, I think it should be a check taken from your charisma and your primary stat. Fighter: Strength/Charisma (Flexes his muscles while demanding a better price) Rogue: Dexterity/Charisma (Tosses a dagger and pins a rat to the wall while explaining how dangerous it can be to "over charge". And so on, (you get my drift), but alas we are tied to the Rules As Written in DnD when you are playing without a DM.
The CHA or STR used for the Intimidate skill discussion is everywhere http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2518646 http://community.wizards.com/forum/dd-next-general-discussion/threads/3944936 Pathfinder allows it when you use a feat http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/feats.html#intimidating-prowess which a fighter can afford to spend
You missed my point, or perhaps I didn't describe it clearly. The question is not the effect of Charisma/ability scores, but the nature of the Intimidate SKILL (see the ToEE definition of the skills), hence the title of the post. What you -- and Sir Chet (partially)-- suggest with Charisma basically means there's no point in having skills or skill checks (now we're back to playing first edition rules), just ability score checks. My point is that the nature of "Intimidate" and "intimidating nature" could easily be seen as the negative/opposite of Diplomacy and diplomatic nature, and a negative "charisma" would certainly detract from "Diplomacy" but serve to enhance "Intimidate". Otherwise, there's really no point in distinguishing between a "diplomacy" and "intimidation" skill. As it stands, they are just two redundant skills that do again exactly the same thing, by the hallowed 'rules'. But I already said that twice. Thus a fighter with a low charisma is penalized in his diplomatic, bluff, and gather info efforts, but with the rules as currently written, is also penalized with being Intimidating. That doesn't make sense. Being 'ugly'(whether behavior or looks -- think of any wasteland marauder in Mad Max movies or Fallout crpg), using anger, and behaving obnoxiously, crazily, or erratically (i.e., "low charisma") are all very common 'negotiating' methods for getting what one wants. It is "force of personality" -- it's just not a "nice" or congenial personality ... and those methods work because they're intimidating, but not diplomatic. [Not to mention behavior --thus Charisma-- that might be acceptable among Dwarves may be completely offensive to Elves.] I'm just saying it would be nice to have a SKILL for fighters/characters with the charm of a troll in terms of influencing others. Prince Charming can still use Diplomacy. Thus the entire SKILL system becomes more balanced.
Thinking further on this idea, it seems if Intimidate were modified by STR instead of CHA then it would be a much worthier skill for a Fighter. Good idea sirchet! Isn't THAC0 2nd edition?
Because being ugly and having large muscles with a willingness to use them is very intimidating to some folks - I like the idea but doubt it could be implemented in such an old game engine...
I think yer all are seeing this in the wrong way. A low Charisma means one with poor sense of self. A shy, nervous or even autist person - not necessarly ugly, or at least not necessarly intimidatingly ugly. Having muscles helps little for people like this to be intimidative. Take John Coffey (Michael Clarke Duncan) from The Green Mile movie: He is big and ugly, and this don't make him intimidative - not after the first glance at least - because he has low Charisma. A lot of Strenght, for sure, but no use for it in a social way. Maybe a hight Strenght could generate a reaction modifier (something I think that is not implemented in the ToEE) or give a bonus to intimidation (like sum Charisma plus Strenght modifier, but that is not the way things work in D&D - at least not without a Feat) but not replace Charisma entirely in Intimidation rolls.
