Problems with Defiler of Women

Good day to you all.
I'm new to this forum (was hiding before ) so I hope I will not
be a nuisance.. Well, here is my problem:

After deciding to play an actually evil party I stumbled upon the "reputation" thread.
Gaear explains there that to get the reputation you need to:
"[...] rape Jenelda (NE or CE), attack Riana over sex refusal, attack Lodriss over sex refusal, rape Murraya."

But I couldn't get the Defiler of Women reputation.
When I threaten Riana she attacks me and if I attack her back everyone on the floor becomes hostile (which would make it impossible to use the brothels services) and I have not found out
how to rape Jenelda..
My partys alignment is NE and I tried talking to her with a NE character and a CE character,
but the only thing I can say is either trying to help her or saying bye to her..

Could anyone please tell me what I'm doing wrong here? =/
(aside from being evil I mean, it is so rare that you can do taht so I have to try it out...)

Thank you for your time!

Edit: I spelled Gaears name wrong.. sorry x_x

 

I didn't even know that this game had this...

Very... very sad. So much it becomes tragically funny.

 

What do you mean with sad?
That you can do other evil acts than "just" slaughtering innocent people (including children
afaik) or do you mean trying to do so is sad?

Well, to each his (or her) own I guess.

 

That's not just 'evil', it's psychotic. There's a difference.

 

What else would you expect from a Chaotic Evil or Neutral Evil creature?

 

It happens. I have gotten it.

 

From the moment the makers of the game make it an "achievement", it makes it encouraging.

ToEE is not properly a violent game (like the old but very polemic carmaggedon). You can perform evil deeds within the game mechanics yeah, but the game is usually very, very poor in its alignment dependant dialog chioces. So much that it makes very little difference to play various alignments. But they did went to the trouble of programming a rape option in. Which is just very bad taste. Very bad.

ToEE is not openworld/sandbox where having the freedom to do absolutely anything you want is actually part of the gameplay experience. So for a linear game like ToEE to have this option, it just shows a very narrow mindset on the programmers part. And it is in very bad taste.

I would not think that if there were more options of the sort. But it kinda is one of the very few things you CAN do to roleplay an evil party, and it is a poor choice.


Another troika game, Vampire: the Masquerade , had a lot more sex and pure violence in it, but in that game they did not cross that line. It is just bad taste to make raping one of the only things you can do to roleplay an evil party. It could be there, after all, it is just a game. But it should not be the only thing there.

 

I thought that the Brothel was originally cut out of the original vanilla release anyway?

It was a Modified TOEE that reopened this BRothel Feature of the game in the first place.

SO I would not say this was in poor taste of the programming, this part was most likely to

be cut from the game anyway.

 

I have to admit, you raise a good point..
But looking at some other reputations, I think it is more a lack
of creativity. Maybe they thought they had to offer some evil choices, but
just went with a check-list..
Kinda like: Betrayel? -check; Murder? - check; Salughtering innocents? -check; uhm.. raping?
(Either that or it was in the original module as well, dunno I have little epirience with
the sourcematerial here)


This actually reminds me about some of my own thoughts when I was still
playing pen&paper myself (lacking a group unfortunatly =/ )
I come to the realisation that in D&D Good&Evil are not really.. well about
things we would call usually "evil" but more like altruism (good) vs egoism (evil)
I think this misunderstanding leads to the "rude"-evil that is so common
in D&D crpgs.. but that is just my two cents, sorry for rambling ^^'

Have a nice day!

 

I agree 100%. D&D always seemed to avoid "real evil" and embraced "evil lite". When I role play, I prefer to be my character. That is why I very rarely play evil alignments. I play real evil when I do. My characters gain the butcher of homlette rep the honest way. By slaughtering the villagers. I think I have played the evil alignments twice. That was enough. I prefer to play NG over any other alignment. That is not "Lawful Stupid" as many DMs want you to play LG characters, but unrelenting war against evil is my personal definition.

 

But making killing an achievement isn't bad?:no:

Other examples of evil: extortion, murder(including children), theft, pickpocketing, assault, you can dominate someone's mind and force them to kill friends and family, you can insult verbally abuse innocent people. You can cause a man to lose his job, and you can burn down a church(arsonist). Maybe you're not looking closely enough?

 

*sigh* reading this thread (started by me, I know..) makes me feel bad about
playing NE =/

For future playthroughs I stick to what I know best: Lawful Neutral ^^

Neutral, because I might TRY to be good, my own desires & greed sometimes get in the way,
Lawful, because I think laws and order are needed to allow maimum freedom for everyone
(that might sounds weird, but if anyone is curious & bored, I'm more to willing to keep
rambling =P)

Well, anyways, thanks to all of you I learned something today:
Don't try out stuff just because it is there, only try it out if you really thik you can pull
through and enjoy the ride!

I feel educated

Have a nice day =)

 

Most of those aren't exclusive to one specific alignment. What I really mean is that one of the few instances where a CE or NE character can do something in this game that is truly unique (something that characters of other alignments do not get the option to do) and that might enrich the player's roleplaying experience... it is rape.

Just bad taste. That's all I'm saying.


ToEE is a fantasy combat based cRPG. So we come to expect lots of blood, gore and even murder. It's just part of D&D and has been part of gaming in general for a LONG time. And if we come to the real world. Even being horrifying as it is, rape is a lesser crime than murder. But the game is ABOUT killing. There are no "rape feats" or whatever. But there are tons of "killing stuff" oriented feats/gear and so on. So the game revolves around killing. It is not bad to encourage and reward it because that's what the game set out to do. Like carmaggedon set out to murder old ladies an so forth. And that wasn't a bad thing, it was just a game and they should be free to produce such titles IF the market is willing to buy them. But my guess is that if you make a game today revolving around raping people, it wouldn't sell very well. It is just common sense. Not even kids have fun pretending to do that stuff in a video game. Not even most of the perverted adults could stomach it.

For better or worse. We got used to killing stuff in video games. It is just part of the whole experience now. Even when we don't have to (like in GTA) we do it sometimes just for kicks. But without getting into a moral discussion, we can confirm just by being alive and not locked in a cavern, that rape does not suffer the same trivialization. And personally, I don't think it should.

Whoever chose to put that into the game put it just for the flavor of it. It could have been a blood sacrifice of an infant. Being horrific as it is (and YES, worse than rape), it is way more acceptable in the gaming sphere. I'm not even blaming anyone... They might have thought it to be a complex moral choice the player would have to make.

But they had to put one small feature to enrich roleplaying for evil characters, and chose a poor one that feels forced and alien even in a medieval fantasy game. (It wouldn't be on PnP thou)

 

The real Middle Ages didn't have an ethical/religious concept of "Neutrality" so all the behaviours you list were by definition evil.

pblack476 you are viewing relative morality from an entirely 21st Century position

Rape was viewed as a relatively low-level sin as late as the 17th Century as you will appreciate from study of The Thirty Nine Articles of the Church of England.

In my opinion worrying about imaginary rape but overlooking the fact that FRPs are populated with cannon-fodder whose lifetime roles are to assist your rogues on their path to greatness is pretty lame.