Odd occurrence with the Hommlet Traders

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Solo4114, Jul 17, 2014.

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  1. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Member

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    So, last night, I did the bit with selling Lareth's gear back to them, with the usual results. Made it through the random encounter on the road, and then went back to have a little chit-chat with the Hommlet traders. And by "chit-chat" I mean "fight to the death."

    It was there that things got weird. Not sure if this has been mentioned before (I tried searching, but it was taking a bit), but at least in 8.0.0 NC, when I'd knocked Rannos and/or Gremag down low enough in HP, it prompts a dialogue that says something like "No! This is not how it should go!" or something.

    The problem I found was that this became kind of an infinite loop with them and it basically stopped them from attacking. I'd killed Raimol, knocked Rannos and Gremag down, and the dialogue would happen. I expected them to run, but then they just stood there and kept repeating these lines. Eventually it'd be one of my guys' turns, so they'd take a swing at 'em.

    When I finally killed Gremag, Rannos used disappearing dust and took off. But prior to that, the behavior of both characters was strange. It was like the dialogue was supposed to happen, but I can't tell if they were BOTH supposed to escape, or if they stick around until you kill one of them, at which point the other escapes.

    Anyway, thought I'd mention it. If this is a known problem, my apologies.
     
  2. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    Usually the first one of the two to get hit calls on the other for help and when either one gets low enough on HP they say that line and use their dust to retreat.

    I've had them repeating the lines over a few times too, but only if they get hit by an AoO when using the dust.

    Not sure if you know but, it's more fun later if you let one escape. ;)
     
  3. Hugh Manetee

    Hugh Manetee Established Member

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    I recently encountered the same thing.
    I've also suddenly had the zombies who say Hey wait for me dad instead of brains brains.
    I didn't try to play past the traders I deleted all my saved games and started again.
    Also seem to be getting more crashes to the desktop.

    I'm wondering if there is some sort of conflict between KotB and Toee.
     
  4. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Member

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    Well, I guess if it's a known bug, no big deal. Plus, it wasn't a game killer for me. And Rannos ended up escaping, so I had myself a fun reunion later.

    I still get zombies saying weird phrases, too. Wait for me dad, hey wake up, etc. None has ever said "Brains....brains...." or anything of the sort. I just ignore it now.
     
  5. The Kern

    The Kern Member

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    Absolutely everything with these traders is bugged.

    - When they sell you Raimol, he is supposed to come with Chainmail. Not only does he not, the dialogue option isn't available to get it from them. Furthermore, they don't even SELL chainmail at all.

    - If you are Chaotic Evil and clear the Moathouse and go back to them to continue your vignette, no new dialogue appears. Nothing happens at all. (But your vignette is ticked as complete.)

    - You can report them to Burne and they will still trade with you if you do it correctly (can't remember which options I took.)

    - I don't know if this one is a bug, but walkthroughs say they should provide you with the Temple location if you blackmail them.. And they don't.

    Regardless, these issues + the ones you mentioned are plenty. Everything about these guys is off, both mechanically and roleplay.
     
  6. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    No. They're separate modules and in no way cross over with each other, being as only one module can be active at a time.
     
  7. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Member

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    I didn't find everything with the traders to be bugged, but I found it to be...perhaps a bit opaque. I hung on to Lareth's stuff because, hey, free breastplate +1 and steel boots (I sold the necklace, but not to Rannos and Gremag). I found their courier and confronted them about it, then told Burne...but that was the end of it. He says "Oh, very worrying. We'll talk about it and otherwise do nothing." There were no dialogue prompts after that to confront them further, once you wheedle a shortsword +1 out of them (which I did, planning to betray them later).

    The remaining dialogue only triggered AFTER I sold Lareth's boots to THEM specifically (what if I'd sold them to the blacksmith?), been attacked by the assassin, AND confronted them with the note.

    To my way of thinking, the problem with how they get triggered has to do with selling Lareth's stuff to them. That should be A trigger, but not the only trigger. I could also see where X number of days after the moathouse has fallen, they send the assassin after you. After all, you get a reputation from clearing out the moathouse, so wouldn't that be enough to dispatch the assassin? I don't know if any of this is possible, of course, but it seems like it'd make more sense than ONLY having them send the assassin if you sell Lareth's gear to them directly.


    On a related note, I may have missed something in the dialogue, but I never quite got why they'd care about Lareth's death. I seem to recall from Lareth's diary that Lareth worked for an opposing god than the one in the Temple, and had established the moathouse as a base of operations to win converts to his god, rather than the Temple god? But I may be misremembering, and he may have been pretending to be loyal while working for his own purposes.
     
  8. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    IIRC from the module, there's collusion in the Temple between Iuz (supported by Hedrack) and Zugg (supported by Senshock), and secondarily Llolth (Lareth) somehow. The traders "work for the Temple," seemingly in association with Smigmal Redhand mainly, so any damage done to its interests would provoke them.

    The Temple is by no means a united front. Iuz and Zuggtmoy (and Llolth) are actually competing with each other for dominance, similar to how the elemental temples compete with each other. That's why it's never safe there, as being friends with one faction by no means guarantees your safety with all. That also informs the nature of the risk there in general - whoever you may be working for is not necessarily interested in your survival; moreso they want you to overcome challenges so that you can prove useful to them. If you can't overcome challenges, you're a waste of time to them anyway.
     
  9. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Member

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    Yeah, I've yet to venture into the Temple itself, actually. I've been doing the Hommlet, Nulb, and related NC quests (e.g. Arena of Heroes). Having just finished up the last of those (well, except for stuff with Skole), however, I think it's time to take on the Temple.
     
  10. zugschef

    zugschef Established Member

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  11. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Member

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    Yep. That's exactly what happened.
     
  12. Hugh Manetee

    Hugh Manetee Established Member

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    No there was no cross contamination between KotB and ToEE.
    Somebody forgot to apply the patch after reactivating the module.
    Deleted all saves start ed again.
    Did all fedx and Welkwood quests got to Moathouse and the secret door bug reared it's ugly head.

    Oh well, rinse and repeat.
     
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