Logical Progression

All the new content and changes are wonderful and I hate to say "but"; But:

The game still lacks the Essence of a Dungeon Master.

What do I mean by that; and how do you fix it? Well, for one thing, a good DM points the Player Characters in the direction he (currently) wants them to take; and (when he does it well) he does that through his Non-Player Characters.

The Village of Hommlet (which is actually just a hamlet) is full of sub-quests, but: they are not linked together; and you (more or less) just stumble across them.

I would like to see the interaction between the PC's and NPC's lend a hand to the discovery of the sub-quests; and do so in some (sort of) logical progression.

For instance, in my role playing (and this is supposed to be a "role" playing game), my characters enter town (as a LG group) and immediately set out to find Valden. It's always night time and he's in the Inn.

Elmo is bumped into first (as that's almost unavoidable); but he doesn't say "Valden? Why he's right over there!" But, fortunately, the character does show up as being the Wainwright. Now, upon greeting Valden and being put off for the night; my lead character secures a room for the night (as, at this point, they are only in town for the one night).

They stay the night and the next morning they read the sign and head to the Village Elder's (as they recall Elmo saying Valden's place was near there and the Wainwright's is not an option on the sign.

They meet Kinter and he points them in the right direction; but there's no mention of his problem (and this would be a perfect opportunity to have the NG Opening quest come into play (not that it's needed, but one like to complete as many as possible).

From there, they head to Valden's and then they learn of the Moat house and head back to the Inn to secure "long term" lodging. Which leads into the Furnok quest.

At this point they just have to pretend that the hostler has pointed Furnok out (as the game doesn't change his description).

From there on, there's a lot more pretending I have to do; as the game doesn't do it for me. Maybe there's a reason to see the woodcutter, I don't know; but it would fit well as a follwup quest by Ostler (should he be running low on firewood - due to those nasty spiders - what with Deklo burning longer and hotter than other more prevelant timbers).

So, yes, I'm saying that each (short term quest) should be followed up by at least an opportunity for the introduction to another such quest.

I've looked at the (supposed) "Walkthrough" on here; but it's more of a game guide than a true walkthrough.

Then again, perhaps I'm too old and used to the original pen, pencil and graph paper version of D&D; after all I was playing it back when it was just a boxed set of booklets (and even a bit before those came out - the first time).

 

I disagree, most of the new content is dispersed through Brother Smyth, and you can't get some of the new stuff until you complete certain quests. It still has an open box feel because you can do some quests and not do others without hurting game flow. You still have to do certain parts beffore later game contet, vanilla or NC, opens up, but you can always go back to those parts later, so its not like a linear game like Icewind Dale was.

 

I also disagree.
"a good DM points the Player Characters in the direction he (currently) wants them to take"
True, but a Good DM never leads them by the hand, or drags them in that direction. A good DM points them in the right direction, or lets them know the right direction (or more precisely their goal) but lets them figure out how to find that direction themselves.

And every npc you meet should just happen to lead to the main quest? The drunk you run into, the village woodsman, he doesn't have his own separate identity and issues, but instead is also tied into the players goal? Every single villager or wandering npc just happens to lead to the players quest. Heck if that's a good DM, then I don't even need to go look for Valden, can just follow the stray cat I run across because the good DM linked everything to the main goal.

As a DM if I were going to just lead you there, or link everything to the goal instead of even having you have to try to find the person that would lead you there, I might as well just pick up your character and place him right on the front steps of the Temple of Elemental Evil.

 

I don't think there's a clear agree or disagree here. There are two types of side quests which I learned how to use by building my own story. Some help the plot to unravel, and some are there... just because. It's a world after all, and just because you need to reach an objective doesn't mean you won't stumble on individuals who might need help with something completely irrelevant, and when this is done, it's done.

 

Perhaps Logical Progression isn't really what I was looking for here; as, yes, they are side quests and totally optional. However, I would like to see a more rational reason for finding them and taking them on.

Going back to the scenario I've been using: my group tends to arrive at night and they find their way to the Inn without knocking on doors (thus they don't have a reason to meet Mathilda, etc.).

They're looking for Valden, but upon finding him they are put off until morning. So, they get room for the night where they meat Spugnoir. Our curious Halfling bard chats the fellow up and learns of both Emridy Meadows and the Moathouse.

For some reason, this changes the following morning's meeting with Valden and the quest to find his wife is only mentioned; but no biggy.

The problem though, here, is that they're not quite ready for the Moathouse and far from ready for the meadows. But, as of yet they've had no reason to speak with the blacksmith. It's unfortunate that Spugnoir doesn't know about the bog...

And as for all the other (fed ex) side quests: I'd like to see the blacksmith pointing them in the right direction (and the logical progression comes into play by his only mentioning them when at least one of the characters is close to being able to complete them).

For instance: he learns of their helping the Innkeeper with the Furnok situation and mentions others that could use their help). His propensity to do so becomes even greater if they have solved the tailor's and/or the leather worker's problem.

In addition, when they first approach him to barter he'd be inclined to let them know which items he's most interested in and who they should see to get a better deal on their other items.

Within Hommlet, the two most talkative and informative characters should be the inn keeper and the blacksmith.

It'll take some doing and a bit more imagination, but all the conversations can be improved upon.

But that's just me thinking too much (as usual).

SK

 

So, in short are you saying maybe the smyth should have a "Help Desk" sign by his anvil?

In every PnP adventure I've been in we always went through a few small towns and our face man would ask around at the local shops, yes all the shops, or at least until he found someone with knowledge of what or whom we're looking for.

But then again, I don't like things to be spelled out for me. Half the fun is in the asking and thinking about the info received.

 

Arriving at night is no big deal - just get a room and wait until morning. Would it help any if the villagers were outside during the daytime, unless they happen to do their work inside?