How great was the Temple of Elemental Evil?

I believe the thing that made Temple of Elem Evil stand out above all the other AD&D pre-packaged adventures was the built-in dynamic elements. It was much more than a mere 'dungeon crawl' (no matter how much combat was involved) because the concept of the very existence of the Temple (and it's attempted resurrection and prison break) was easily tied to the events of a surrounding, moving world with troop build-ups, troop movement, weapon traders/caravans, active spy networks, internal intrigues and power struggles, local political responses/non-responses, and normal people just trying to make it from day to day without getting kidnapped by ghouls and hauled off to some prison cell/grisly pantry. The foes were usually run-of-the-mill, not fantastic. The elemental guardians were well and logically placed. The type and amount of loot was reasonably well balanced (especially if your GM made you 'pay' in time and $$ for training in order to increase class level); we were certainly never overburdened with bags of treasure (until we reached the Nodes, but then, we had no way to carry such massive amounts of treasure -- and to be honest we were just glad to escape those horrid confines-- never mind the gold, gems, and magic swords left behind). The Temple(s) itself was dynamic -- continually recruiting and replenishing its rank and file troops-- so no matter how many times the Heroes entered/exited the dungeon levels, the next visit could present a new look. Previously 'cleared' rooms or areas could be repopulated, new strategies devised, traps, tricks --some deadly, some hilariously ineffective -- foes aimlessly wandering the hallways, ogres out in search of snacks, ghouls prowling for trouble, guards hiding out in abandoned storerooms, leaders looking for AWOL guards or creating intrigue for rivals; in a word: Dynamic.

Not that other 'modules' didn't have that same dynamic possibility with a creative GM and the right mix of people, but no other published TSR product (that I know of -- although Ravenloft came in distant 2nd place) had so much background and attention to details (some fleshed out, some left intentionally open ended) included within the written pages. Later, TSR combined the A1-4 series (Slave Lords) in much the same format, and included an open door for the Heroes to move from --or mix together-- the Temple scenario and the Slavers scenario. Then on to the Giants and the Drow and the Abyss/Lolth, which neatly tied in the idea of Lolth's "web spinning" intrigue within the Temple itself. My GM was also imaginative (and organized) enough to include a scenario inspired by Fred Saberhagen's Book(s) of Swords, in which one of our underlying and ever-present quests was to search for hilt, pommel, and blade pieces of various Epic Swords, opposed by (and racing against) a group of heavily armored evil villains --who always showed up for mini-showdowns at the most inopportune times. He also included elements of Roger Zelezny's Chronicles of Amber series, with one of our Heroes slowly discovering his own complicated past, innate powers (latent psionics), and dysfunctional family of power brokers.

It simply made for awesome social interaction with a creative group of (in my case) teenaged friends (we were in high school at the time); it was good, clean fun (sown with ethical and moral dilemmas that reveal and shape your personal character -- experienced gamers know of what I speak) and that kept us away from typical teenaged vices and shenanigans (which made our moms VERY happy; not to mention our moms conspired to require all of us to keep our grades up as a prerequisite to our weekend gaming sessions).

Okay, so I digress from what made the Temple great to what made my personal experience great. But that's the whole point of gaming -- the social interaction and development of creativity-- and the Temple was the template and inspiration for everything that followed.

 

I do believe in one of the Baldur's Gate games you have to unite the hilt, pommel and blade of a legendary sword!

You do make an excellent case for the module. It is also evident that you had a good GM, which is the most important ingredient in a rich and fulfilling campaign.

 

That's a good way of putting it. And heck, once you get used to the bugs, the ones that aren't showstoppers are kind of amusing: I had one party - pre Co8 mod - that somehow grew strings, so they looked like puppets! I guess it was some case of texture stretch. And when I lived in China, me and my wife played the game despite the fact that every time you fired a magic missile it would bounce around at the normal speed for up to a minute before hitting the target! We would go do something else while the missile was bouncing all over the show! Sadly, I've been unable to replicate this bug back home - I actually kind of miss the absurdity of it.

 

Looks fab, but not an option for me - I couldn't guarantee my attendance and I have kids to attend to. Maybe when I enter my retirement, in my dotage!

 

On another note: I loved ToEE in tmy PnP era -- I used Hommlet and the Moathouse for the beginning adventure for a group that stayed together for a couple years. I made a whole gameworld around the players' adventures in Hommlet and the Moathouse -- did not use Greyhawk -- fleshing out the world as they went along. Eventually, the world I created there helped me get a job with Judges Guild, and I went on to make adventure modules with them for a couple years before Gygax set out destroying all competition (he offered to buy JG, and when Bob Bledsaw refused to sell, Gygax upped the license fee by a factor of 10! -- and so we no longer could make "official" D&D stuff and our sales dropped off to nil).

Anyway, in my PnP campaign, the players ended up owning the trading post, then later replacing Burne & Rufus in the tower. One thing I'd like to see in ToEE is replacement NPCs for the important ones that die ala Jagged Alliance 2. Replacement vendors (or does the trading post stay empty forever?), new adventurer-patrons at the inns/taverns and some adventurer-NPC encounters in the Temple & Moathouse and all adventure areas.

 

This is something I would also love to see. After the traders are killed, their stuff just lays there and the building remains stagnant.

It would also be neat if some new NPC's strolled into the town/Inn after certain criteria were met (character's level, certain dungeon areas cleared, specific quest completed, etc.). Six months can go by, and the characters are level 8 - 10 or whatever, and yet there are good ole' Spugnoir and Furnok waiting in their same old places. A dynamic cast of NPCs at the Inn similar to how vendor's inventories change would be fun.

 

Yes, it would definitely add to the re-play value, and also help immerse the player in a dynamic world that advances as time goes on. Even Spugnoir and Furnok (and ol' Zert, et al) should advance in level, at a slower rate than the PC but still . . . when you're 10th level and they are still 1st & 2nd level . . . ya hafta wonder why they call themselves adventurers if all they do is hang around the inn. It would be nice to meet them in passing at the Moathouse, or perhaps on a wandering encounter where we meet them fighting for their life and we can rescue them . . . or some such.

 

You will like The Keep on the Borderlands module. In that module, if you (spoilers ahead! highlight to read)

Spoiler

go into the pub (tavern) and talk to the recruitable dwarf fighter/cleric NPC named Korrac but decline his offer to join your party, then Korrac will run over to the recruitable female human fighter NPC named Two Swords and the recruitable male half-orc monk NPC named Brother Fist and Korrac will recruit them and all 3 of them will run off.

Originally posted by Shiningted

I started role-playing late in my life. It was only when I started high (secondary) school (in year 8) that a friend introduced me to Basic Dungeons & Dragons. As a result, I never role-played the super-module The Temple of Elemental Evil when it was first released. That super-module is one of my role-playing friend's favourite modules because he played it so many times when he was a kid and he has read the super-module and Dungeon-Mastered it and he knows that module better than any other module.
I myself did role-play that super-module but I was a young adult when I played it. I thought the ToEE module was average - I was indifferent to it - I didn't think that it was amazing, nor did I think that it wasn't very good. Personally, the following are the D&D modules that I had the most fun role-playing (in descending order from most favourite to least):

1. Ruins of Myth Drannor (2nd Edition AD&D module) (this was the most exciting and deadliest module that I have ever played. Exploring the ruins of Myth Drannor was like exploring Hell (i.e. it was fucking dangerous!))

2. Ruins of Undermountain (2nd Edition AD&D module) (the actual module pretty much just contains the huge dungeon map (but what an awesome dungeon map it is!) - it is the Dungeon Master who has to fill most of the rooms of the dungeon with monsters and NPCs. Fortunately, I had a brilliant Dungeon Master who turned that dungeon into a death trap - there were deadly traps and deadly monsters at almost every turn in the dungeon. This was the best dungeon crawl that I have ever experienced!)

3. Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil (D&D v3.0 module) (This module is EPIC! Not only are Hommlet and Nulb and the old Temple of Elemental Evil included in this module, but there is a brand new Temple of Elemental Evil that is even deadlier than the old Temple! This is easily one of the most difficult modules ever created. So many times, we had TPWs (Total Party Wipeouts). If you thought that the plot in the original ToEE super-module was convoluted, then the new plot in this module will leave your head spinning!)

4. unknown Dark Sun module (2nd Edition AD&D module) (I think that it was the introductory module or the very first module ever released for the Dark Sun campaign setting. The ending of the module really sucked, by the way!) (playing half-giants or thrikreen in a world that is hostile to life and that is ruled by sorceror lich-kings who have banned magic and where psionics has a major role in gameplay is immensely fun!)

5. unknown Planescape module (2nd Edition AD&D module) (fighting demons and teleporting to demonic planes is freaking awesome!)

No. You're probably MUCH better off killing all of the cultists in each elemental temple so that you can loot their cool magical items!

I've role-played Warhammer Fantasy (I don't know which edition that it was). I thought that it was okay (but nowhere near as good as D&D), and that the unique character development system is certainly interesting, but it is seriously flawed as it just causes all playes to choose the same professions and then change to the same different professions. I rememeber almost everybody in our adventuring party starting off playing Pit Fighters because of their stats and character development capacity. I LOVE the lore and artwork of the Warhammer Fantasy setting, and the computer-generated map (of the land mass that is the equivalent of Europe in the real world) (http://mordheim.thrasherkitch.com/warhammer/warhammer.jpg) looks freaking awesome! I was bitterly diasappointed at how crap Warhammer Online is!

If you recruit a specific NPC (I forget which NPC), then when your adventuring party arrives at or enters the Temple of Elemental Evil for the first time, that NPC will say a voice sample about how "The Temple of Elemental Evil" is a stupid name for a place.

-added spoiler tags (SA)

-Thank you for adding spoiler tags, Sitra Achara. Me and my big mouth!

 

I think I detect a theme ....

 

Back in my PnP AD&D days, I only played the Village of Hommlet (module T1, I believe). We had great fun playing it. We spent most of our time in the village itself, which seems silly in contrast to the computer game. But we had some thieves in the group, who kept very busy.