Monk issues

After buying the game from GoG and installing the Co8 patch (and 8.0.1 update) I've actually found the game playable and fun instead of the reroll-count-as-attribute-score bugfest the original ToEE used to be, so congratulations to the mod-makers!

However, I've ran into a couple of issues with a monk wielding a weapon only in his off-hand (ie. unarmed/weapon combo).

These all with a human monk at level 8/9, with a dagger of venom in the off-hand and no special monk gear.


1. Improved two-weapon fighting doesn't work.

The normal feat two-weapon fighting works giving a bonus to hit with the off-hand weapon. However, ITWF doesn't give an extra attack (or any other bonus) until I grab myself another weapon.

2. Two-weapon defense doesn't work

Absolutely no effect until I grab a second weapon.

It looks like the two-feats above have 'if (weapon_in_both_hands)' instead of 'if (weapon_in_off_hand)' scripted when compared to plain Two-weapon fighting -feat.


3. Full attack works weirdly

Note: This seems to happen even when dual-wielding normally while using flurry of blows (tested with a small quarterstaff/dagger of venom combo).

If I select full attack action in combat the first attack – called 'Quaternary attack'?! – gets bonuses like this:
+6 class
+5 Strength
-15 third attack (!)
+1 Weapon focus: Unarmed
-1 Flurry of blows

If I'm hasted, I get two of those attacks in a round. :no:

The second (third, if hasted) attack is more normal:
+6 class
+5 Strength
-6 Dual-wield
+2 Off-hand light weapon
+2 Two-weapon fighting
+1 Weapon focus: Unarmed
-1 Flurry of blows

If I attack normally (click an enemy) then I seem to get correct bonuses...assuming I've remembered to take the 5 foot step next to enemy ;-)


In any case, I was wondering if those are things that are possible to fix (by possible, I mean changing a few lines at a script) or should I just "redesign" my character and select, well, more fun feats in the future instead of ITWF + TWD?



ps. As a completely unrelated point, is there anywhere to get tons of shurikens in the early game? :ninja:

 

There are several threads dedicated to monks and their build, along with any issues other players may have had. Search through them and see if you can find an answer- this may have already been encountered and the answer you're looking for might be there. Good luck BTW- monks have both their supporters and detractors here... (I tend to favor them myself but it's been a while since I played one...) :thumbsup:

 

Thanks for the tip, unfortunately the related thread was from year 2008 and describes a similar problem, except for the two-weapon defense issue and bit less 'debugging'

The thing with changing the 'build' itself is that I already took WF: Unarmed attack and TWF so I can't just ignore 2 feats spent on a character. :sadblinky

(well, except that my other characters have totally useless feats as well...)

I always favor monks.

With some buffing they're quite capable and the extra speed is a blessing.

In ToEE the 3 attacks on level one seemed to make my monk pretty darn powerful in the beginning...

The issue with monks in general is that they get the next (4th) attack only on level 8 and with the slower BAB growth there's not much gain in sheer combat power in between, which would make them pretty bad in vanilla ToEE for big part of the game (something like 4-8th level).

However, if ITWF would work, my monk would've gained 5th attack on level 9, 6th attack on level 11 and 7th attack on level 15. That's 4 extra attacks in 8 levels (8, 9, 11 & 15)...which is quite silly.

I'm thinking of possibly taking some fighter levels so perhaps 12/4/? monk/fighter/monk for the extra feats and a possible extra attack (and an extra attack on 14 instead of 15), totaling to 9 attacks with working ITWF while hasted on level 20. Not that I expect to reach 20 or that ITWF would magically begin to work somehow

 

Now that I think...The bigger problem might be the lack of working full attack.

I have no reason to think that suddenly the full attack starts to work so instead of something like this...

+9/+9/+9/+9/+9/+4/-1 (main/haste/flurry/furry/off-hand/2nd attack/3rd attack) + bonuses

...the BAB will be something like this...

-4/-4/-4/+9/+9/+4/-1 (quaternary/quaternary/quaternary/main/off-hand/2nd/3rd attack) + bonuses :thumbsup:


Also, tested the TWF + flurry with two monk weapons and the -15 penalty does apply.


ps. Why does the smith sell masterwork katanas but not slightly modified simple farm instruments like the kama (or enough shurikens ), which would be more logical for a farming community?

 

Once you leave the monk class, you can not go back to add more levels to your monk. So if you start to take fighter levels, your done with your monk levels.

 

Monks are like paladins- once you switch class they can't go back. And there is a store owner in Nulb that sells monk weapons- look for him in an out of the way house...

 

Ya, thanks for the tip, to both of you.

Originally I was thinking of having the fighter levels from 16 to 20 but after reading a bit I'm not sure if I can reach 20 so I thought of adding them bit earlier and then monk levels if there's still adventure left. Now I think I'll stick to my original plan.


Alas I've already found the weird guy in Nulb.

It just amazes me that you can't buy a farming implement but you can buy an extremely rare, relative to kamas which are basically oriental sickles, katana from the smith. I'd rather see the items vice versa ie. that you have to look for the katana instead of the kama. However I do realize that the other weapon is more popular and hence more easily accessible.


Besides, still not quite enough shurikens or darts (need 50-60 of either) for a future character

edit:
No wait, do darts stack? I think shurikens at least do (they come with a number) but not so sure about darts..

 

Another issue...

My level 9 monk hit a noble salamander and dealed 1 point of damage due to DR of 15/magic.

Not only should his fists be considered magical but he also has greater magic fang cast on him.

His off-hand weapon (dagger of venom +1) works normally...

edit:
Apparently this was also noticed back in 2008.

 

If your monk is a pure level nine monk then yes he should have ki-strike at level four.

 

Aye...Haven't had problems with it before...Well, that could also be because there aren't that many DR/magic enemies around earlier or that their DR has been so low that it's of no consequence.

I'll try to pay better attention to it


For that matter, now that my cleric reached level 10 I was thinking of crafting the Monk's Belt...However the pre. req. Tenser's Transformation is in red and the create button is grayed out.

Do I need to be capable of casting both spells in order to create the item? :twitch:

 

You need either Righteous Might or Tenser's Transformation. This is a bug.

 

Ok.

"Fixed" it by removing Tenser's from the list of requirements.

btw. If either-or component crafting can't be done, then why not just duplicate the item and have two recipes for eg. Monk's Belt?

 

Ok, ran into couple of gargoyles (DR 10/magic) and jackalweres (DR 5/silver).

Both had full damage reduction against my level 10 monk with amulet of mighty fists +5 and greater magic fang (+2 which, by the way, stacks with the amulet). :shrug:

Coincidentally my cleric's plain (as far as I can tell) morningstar +1 bypassed both DRs, while the rest suffered from the DR/5 silver.

edit:
Shadows were also completely immune to my monk's fist damage.

 

Try attacking the critters that have DR(#/Magic) while your monk doesn't have Greater Magic Fang cast on him/her. My level 17 monk was able to bypass the DR(#/Magic) of enemies while wearing an Amulet of Mighty Fists +5 and making unarmed attacks (i.e. not holding any weapons in either of his hands) and while not having Magic Fang or Greater Magic Fang cast on him.

Alternatively, try unequipping your off-hand weapon to see if that fixes the problem. The enhancement bonus from the spell Greater Magic Fang doesn't apply to your off-hand weapon (because it is not a natural weapon) and may be causing the problem (of not being able to bypass an opponent's DR(#/Magic)).

As a last resort, try unequipping your Amulet of Mighty Fists and your Monk's Belt to see if either of those solve the problem (of being able to bypass an opponent's DR(#/Magic).

 

This is what I am most concerned about. I remember playing a monk and seeing this -15 third attack problem. Have you found a workaround?