Party creation suggestion

Bards get really good use out of Spell Focus Enchantment, Greater Spell Focus Enchantment, Spell Penetration, Improved Initiative, and Combat Casting. Especially the first two. Meaning bards don't have a lot of feats to burn. Archers require a minimum of two feats to be effective, which makes them kind of an expensive option for bards, but it's possible. Using one feat for Glaive or Ranseur might be better.

Of course, if you multiclass as a fighter you get extra feats and all the proficiencies, at the expense of bard skills. Some people have reported that if you keep your bard's Perform skill at maximum while multiclassing, his Bard Song abilities will continue to advance as if he were a pure bard, but I haven't tried it myself.

 

Yeah, didn't remember the mandatory archer feats :/. Guess it evens out no matter which I take, elf or human, since humans get extra feat at lvl 1 but I still need to take one ranged weapon proficiency. Can he stand toe-to-toe with an enemy if he's in melee? If I go for glaive/ranseur, that is.

E: Forgot to ask, is it viable to go TWF with one of the two melee-fighters? I've always had one fighter-type with shield and the other with 2h, just thinking if that build would be viable

 

TWF is certainly viable, though it may not be optimal for a fighter. I often use it with rogues and rogue/fighters, who can do insane damage with it at higher levels. I like to have a high dexterity rogue with TWF and Weapon Finesse, who dual-wields a rapier and a miniature rapier (with as many crafted bonuses as possible). He makes a great assassin, but he's not so great against huge opponents.

As for the long weapon, the point of it is not to go toe-to-toe more than you have to. Use five-foot-step to keep away from enemies who close with you. Also, hide behind fighters, and use Enlarge Person whenever you can. And your bard should aim for getting blue elven armor, which is good protection that will only very rarely interfere with his spell-casting.

 

I disagree with Groo. A TWF fighter is the optimal duelist and will outperform any other type of fighter in terms of raw single target damage once you have access to elemental burst weapons.

You get more attacks, more crits, more elemental damage which heavily outscales even 2handed powerattacks.

TWF fighters with elemental burst weapons make the best duelists in any party.

BUT WHY NOT HAVE THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS?

With a few levels of fighters, you have more than enough feats to get everything you need and be a jack of all weapons instead of a specialized fighter type.

I simply love versatile self-sustaining characters over any type of specialized type. My bard/barb/fighter uses magic to selfbuff, throws javelins with a tower shield (unequippable at will for spellcasting) in her offhand to weaken the enemy while retaining high AC vs any who would charge her before swapping between a guisarme for cleave and great cleave action or dual scimitar / cutlass for single target action (I don't use answering swords or masterwork great cleavers since they're overpowered).

And before the end of the turn, she can also choose to put back on the tower shield. If combat expertise is available, you can also add that on top of a defending weapon for even more AC before the end of the turn. When you factor in the self buffs such as greater invisibility, haste, displacement, blur, mirror images, she is damn near invulnerable to all but magic!

However the bard gains UMD (Utilize Magic Devices) as a class specific skill, which can cover this little weak spot by purchasing magic scrolls that can help twart magic threats!

The key feat here is QUICK DRAW. The key strategy is VERSATILITY. The key mentality is INDEPENDANCE of any party support.

What feats do you need after quick draw? Power attack, cleave, great cleave, twf, itwf and that's it!

Weapon Focus, Greater weapon focus, weapon specialization, improved critical, point blank shot, precise shot, far shot, combat expertise, improved trip attack are optionals you can add for more power in the field you want.

 

I STILL remember how my Chaotoc Good Fighter had my Rogue pickpocket Fragarach off of Prince Thrommel, so that my Fighter can dual-wield Fragarach and Scather. > Talk about overpowering!!!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA....... anyway, i took Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Two-Weapon Fighting, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword, Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword, Weapon Specialization: Bastard Sword, Greater Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword, Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Improved Critical, and Quick Draw. He was fucking invincible!!! Btw this was in the GoG.com version, don't know if you can pickpocket Fragarach anymore.

So basically, I agree with TarMynastyr, that strategy is PERFECT!!!!

 

True but why rest for 8 hours when you don't have too?

 

Well, I'm gonna try fighter, fighter/barb, bard, cleric, sorc and wiz party, let's see how it goes . Other fighter will be shield user but not sure what I'm gonna do with the other one

 

Give the Fighter/Barbarian Two Weapon Proficiency, make the Fighter a Shield user.

 

Having not played much with the more recent editions of the D&D system, I am kinda bumbling through a bit. However, I think I have a party that I like (all NG except the Pal):

1. Human Fgt 1, Bard 2 with 18 Cha 16 Cons and nothing else above 15, but also nothing below about 13(no idea where to buy her an instrument). So far she is fairly useless, but at least with that one level of Fighter she has reasonable hp.

2. Human Cleric 3

3. Human Pal 3 (now fallen because the dwarf won the drinking contest!?)

4. Half elf Ranger 3 (dual wielder)

5. Halfling Rogue 3 (Dex 20!)

6. Dwarf Fighter 3 (Str 18+ and Cons 20!, gotta love that for a tank)

7. Elf Fgt 2 / Wiz 2 (18 Dex and 18 Int)

Left the 8th slot for NPCs. Furnok has already been eaten by a giant crab . . .

 

Since you got 7 members you could've taken another spellcaster. And I don't know if it's such a good idea to multiclass a mage, if people do multiclass their mage, they usually multiclass it to rogue/wiz iirc. And you can't do ANYTHING evil or un-lawful with a paladin, not even drinking contests .

 

Yeah that damn drinking contest imposed accost of 3000 GP on me! As for the multiclass mage, I'm not really seeing a downside so far. Well, I guess maybe her skill set is a bit behind. But on the other hand, she is pretty dang capable in melee against weaker/moderate oponnents. She carries a wooden elven shield, wears padded armor and uses a rapier and bow. Annoying part is she got killed by the Hill Giant so now she is going to be behind on levels to catch up on the lost XP.

I never did multi-class so I wanted to give it a try. I was reading some Icewind Dale threads where people use an "all fighter crew and them" dual class a few of them after level 1.

 

Anthro: You are aware that Elves are proficient with Longswords?

 

And longbows, although there might be a class restriction on that- which is why I always give my wizards crossbows and then enchant them. Also, you can use shields w/o being a fighter or proficient with them- you simply suffer a penalty, exactly what escapes me at the moment...

 

You should have given her 18 of strength. Otherwise, give her a lvl of Barb next. Barb Rage will make her able to hit stuff and ur 16 Con will help it last long. Give her some strength boosts whenever possible, through lvlup, buffs and equipment.

She is perfect for frontlining with 16 Con also so I would suggest you grab Quick Draw asap so that you can swap between shield for tanking or twohanded weapon for dmg and spellcasting.

 

Some interesting stuff. Have to say, I do like the more complex and rich tactical sophistication of the 3.5 rule set, or at least how it is represented in the game. The turn-based tactical part of this game is fabulous. Sure the AI isn't great at the 'pre-battle' deployment and he isn't even really terrific at battles. But even so, if you do not pay attention to the complexities of the tactical dynamics you will at best miss out on maximizing your parties hitting power. But if you do, it seems you can accomplish what the original AD&D was all about: teams of David{s} beating Goliath(s).

Also love how the various skills and character attributes are woven together, the bard song being one example of that, but other things too, such as bluff skill (Cha based) being dependent on Charisma.

Gygax and Arneson did a great job on those original systems, but it seems that the WoC guys have really done a good job of expanding on and enriching that tradition. The one thing that has turned me off from the more modern renditions of the universe have been the overly glitzed magicka-hyped elements: 6-foot tall amazon boobie warriors; Wizards with shining auras and glam rock hairdos; Arnold warriors glistening in sweat, etc.