Hello there, could someone explain me the difference between let's say glaive or any other martial long weapon and spiked chain? Cause i don't see any point in using the latter because: - minimum and maximum reach seems to be the same - glaive has 1k10 dmg whih is 5,5 on average while spiked chain has 2K4 whih is 5 on average - glaive has crit 20x3, spiked chain 20x2 - u need to waste a feat to use spiked chain properly - glaive is slashing weapon while spiked chain is piercing, slashing overcome zombie's dmg reduction, piercing overcome no reduction, Am I missing something or spiked chain is the worst weapon in the game?
Hello Eran, If ToEE's rules were more faithful to D&D 3.5, there would be many advantages in using the spiked chain over the long-reach polearms, namely the ability to attack adyacent opponents and to perform trips (only the gisarme of all the polearms can do this too.) As things are in ToEE, there are only two advantages in the choice of the spiked chain: -It's the only finessable long-reach weapon (that is, with the weapon finesse feat you can use your Dex bonus instead of you Str to attack rolls.) -At least in the vanilla campaign, if you haven't a crafter, the spiked chain is one of the few magic holy long-reach weapons you will find in the whole game (the other being a holy ranseur, but no glaives.)
Ideal rogue weapon :its finessable, it's got reach so the wielder can keep a safe distance and since its 2x handed it puts a 1.5 str bonus to dmg(important for low str chars that need/wish for decent dmg even on regular strikes) for example a mere str 14 rogue does 2d4+3 (that's a minimum of 5 mind u) dmg even on a regular atak and since the rogue is certainly going to boost its dex troughout the game its arguably one of the most accurate' weapon there is as far as dex rogues are concerned and coupled with the initiative& lite armors typically worn by such chars it pretty much guarantees that on turn 1 u will deal a quick low blow to any opposing char regardless of its distance from yr party and cash in on a ton of attacks free attacks as opponents start to waltz in and out of yr chain's reach. So it stands to reason to see the spike chain as a great wpn if properly employed and yes most definitely if u wish to employ the chain' as just another str based fighter's toy then u can certainly say it sucks royaly compared to others as it just isn't meant for a common brute, it's an exotic wpn that only a dedicated few can employ properly.
well i would argue - in this game str based rogues are the best You can roll stats as much as you want, so it's no problem to start with 18 str 18 agi 17 con and 10+ of other stats. The best armor you can wear has 4 agi max and 7 armor class I think. elf or halfling who boosts his agi till 20 lvl with +6 gloves has +10 agi max. so you will gain 7 ac with bracers of armor +8 by boosting agility while you can boost your strenght, take 1 lvl of barbarian and have the same hits as any fighter could have, - some BAB but + epic snake attacks. You don't need to waste feat for weapon finesse so you can take improved initiative whih will leave you with 2 init less than when you boost your agi as most as you can. I think the best rogue would be glaive using human or half orc 15 rogue 1 barbarian 4 fighter - 16 bab , weapon specialisation, 2 rogue bonus feats - crippling strike and improved evansion or any other feat, also 8k6 sneak attack and +12/13 str buffed with enlarge person, barbarian rage and +6 item. It would give you massive 1k10+20+8k6+ power attack +any weapon enchancement you would have. just use improved invi, or blind your enemies and watch how they scream torn by your surprise great cleave with a huge glaive In this game there is no sense to have different than 18 value for agi - improved two weapon fighting needs 17, best armors whih don't cripple your moving speed have +4 max agi. very high hide is only slighty more usefull than high initiative as you can finr robes of midnight. Well, sure in the end you can have so high AC noone will propably hit you - but you would have hard time killing sneak attack immune foes, and guys with dmg reduction The funniest thing is that devs of TOEE, neverwinter nights, baldur's gate, idewind dale implement weapon stats like: different dmg/criticals for each weapon, but they don't implement more complex things - for example spiked chain should be the only reach weapon with whih you could use trip attacks and the only reach weapon you could use to strike adjecent foe... SO in the end atleast 50% of weapons are statwise useless.
Best lite armor there is : mitral shirt(4 AC) +6dex bonus and when crafted it can reach an AC total of 13; yes not much of a point going past 22 dex(natural or with gloves) except better initiative maybe. As far as str based rogues yes they definitely rule combat wise the meanist' rogue i made was a str maxed out barb2/rogue x in medium armor(mitral plate incidentally best ToEE armor AC wise) wielding a falchion that guy was plain brutal regular hit or not the dmg was simply obscene; but in the end rly high str makes a rly big impact only for pure fig/barb/.../... as far as rogues are concerned the str modifier is a nice thing to have but next to theyr sneak atack dmg potential its of little matter (to few sneak immune opponents to actually encounter to justify obsessing about raising str when there are tons of loot guarded by stubborn locks/traps :thumbsup:
i THINK THE spike chain has alot of uses, as a rogue, you deal extra damage with sneak attacks, plus you can ready verse approach strike a readied reach attack, then as the oppenent tries to move in again, you get an attack of oppertunity, thus getting a possible 3 attcks in one round go (at level 1). further, if you have combat reflexes and cleave, you start to notice alot of enimies falling in a circle around you, especially if improved too great cleave by magic crafting. latter in the game, you find a spiked holy chain. this can be improved too a holy keen , flaming chain , with great cleave added onto it so this would not only add too damage, + sneak attck damage for rogue, your doing fire + holy damage with a crit of 18-20 (keen), wich also could maybe be improved to 16-20 using an improved crit feat. plus bonus class of weapon say, you get a +2 bonus when attempting to trip or vs a trip attack. it deals 2 types of damage, pierce and blungeoning. its a two handed weapon dealing 150% damage. another added bonus, you will never roll a damage of 1 you deal 2d4 meaning 2-8 +str think about this 2d4: ( (2-8) + (str bonus: say +4) + holy + flaming burst + sneak att (2d6)) * 1.5 I have gone an entire game using this weapon until the end, in about every battle, this weapon I conserderd a good bonus, not a handicap. the Character wielding it had by far the most kills and critical hits. You can also coop de grace enimies that are farther away, because of its reach.
I think it's a shame the devs didn't implement that most reach weapons can't hit adjacent enemies. It would make the choice between regular weapons and reach weapons much more interesting, and the spiked chain would be a lot more useful in comparison. Besides being finessable, I believe it's the only reach weapon in ToEE you'll still wield two-handed while enlarged, making it very useful for a high strength, power attacking character. Most other two-handed weapons are wielded in one hand by enlarged characters (bastard sword being another). Slightly off topic, but that can be used to make a seriously bugged and stupid character. If you equip one of these two-handed turned one-handed weapons, you can equip a tower shield when enlarged. If I remember correctly, when the spell runs out you'll go back to normal size, but the shield stays AND your weapon returns to two-handed status (1.5xSTR, 2 dmg per power attack point etc). Doing this makes you a bad person.
As Short pointed out, the spiked chain is the only reach weapon that will receive the appropriate damage bonuses from power attack and strength while enlarged or under the effects of the cleric spell that increases size (righteous might?); 1.5x strength / 2 damage per point of power attack. I found his statement regarding the bastard sword a little ambiguous. Although I have not played in several months, "I think" that the bastard sword (non reach weapon) will also receive the appropriate bonuses while enlarge and, or righteous might is active as long as no feat is acquired to dual wield it. I do not know if both a bastard sword and shield can be equipped while under the effects of enlarge and, or righteous might without the feat. All other weapons are considered one-handed while enlarge and, or righteous might is active. One-handed weapons receive 1x strength bonus and one damage per point of power attack. Since all other two-handed weapons are considered one-handed while the spells are active, it is possible to dual wield them; e.g. a rogue could dual wield glaives. These are bugs in the engine. If you want to use enlarge and, or righteous might with two-handed weapons and, or power attack, and not exploit the two-handed shield bug that Short mentioned, then either the spiked chain or bastard sword (with the above exception) are the best weapons to use.
