1st time playing Monk, help needed

Yay! I finally played the Monk, so now what? I already have her level up to 3 and planned of multiclassing her into wizard, but I'm afraid of losing some important feats the Monk class have. So to all Monk professional users out there, how many Monk levels before I multiclass her? Help me also with the feats she'll need.

Her stats randomized

• STR: 17
• DEX: 14
• CON: 11
• INT: 18
• WIS: 15
• CHA: 11

Her normal feats so far

• Power Attack
• Cleave
• Combat Reflexes

I'm planning on taking the feat Weapon Focus (Quarterstaff) and Quick Draw for her to use Stunning Fist. :joy:

 

What are you planning to do with your monk/wizard?

You have created a character with horrendous multi-attribute disorder. Normal monks suffer badly enough from this.....

Dexterity and wisdom must be maximised to get best from AC bonus
Constitution, Charisma and Intelligence follow in that order
Strength is almost a dump stat - especially once Weapon Finesse is taken at 3rd level [consider using as missile specialist for levels 1 and 2]

Every monk needs a wizard to cast Mage Armor and craft gauntlets of dexterity +6 and Meleny to spend 6000 of her XPs on an Amulet of Mighty Fists +5 for him/her.

If you don't believe what I said about MAD consider the fact that your Monk3/Wizard2 is trading 3 levels of wizard for an AC only 1 better than a Wizard5 with int18 and dex17 [and this is before you remember the pure wizard has a mage armor spell that lasts to Imeryd's Run and more random encounters]

 

I play monks but still haven't gotten one to 20th level yet but Pygmy is right- you might want to start over again. According to the manual a monk's key stats are Wisdom, Dexterity and Strength. Pages 51-53 of the TOEE manual gives the breakdown of the monk's bonus feats by level, although the game does assign Stunning Fist and Improved Trip automatically (not sure what replaced Slow Fall). Also remember that monks, like paladins, can't progress in their monk level if they multi-class- if you want a fighting wizard you might be better off playing a straight wizard, preferable elven since they would be able to use longbows and long swords (and even elven shields since they have no spell penalties). If you do decide to start over plan out your layout for your monk before you start building him/her- better yet, try 2 of them so that you can try different builds- I usually go with Dodge and Mobility, Two Weapon Fighting and Combat Reflexes or Power Attack and Point Blank Shot with Quick Draw later (to switch between melee and missile attacks). :thumbsup:. Good luck... (p.s.- druids can also craft Gauntlets of Dexterity)

 

You might want to check out the previous thread discussing monks for WOTGS (War of the Golden Skull, a high level quest late in the game). The thread has some interesting examples of how to build monks, including one that is a monk 4/sorceror 8. This could be a fun build if adapted as a monk wizard instead.

From the Monk for WOTGS thread (sorry, not sure how to link or quote correctly)

Hexorcist:

Monk 4 / Sorceror 8 (Human)

Because, what can be nicer as LARGE lvl 12 monks?

Int & Str are dumpstats

Familiar: Weasel

Spells - Sorc:
1) Enlarge peron x3, Mage armor x3
2) Glitterdust x2, Web x2, Mirror Image, Ghoul touch
3) Stinking Cloud, Hold person x2, Fireball, Haste
4) Stoneskin, Confusion, Fear

Feats*:

1) Start: Spell focus: Necro, Improved init
2) lvl 3: Iron will
3) lvl 5: Deflect arrows (monk bonus)
4) lvl 6: Great Fortitude
5) lvl 9: Craft Wand
6) lvl 12: Lightning Reflexes

After a wee bit of battlefield control, will buff his mates (Haste, Mage armours, and lastly Enlarge person), after which he will pelt the enemy with spells of his choosing.

Preferred weapons: Unarmed, Wands, Light crossbow (if all else fails)

Gear: Wand of Ray of enfeeblement, Wand of Scorching Ray (or Melf's Acid Arrow), either Cloak of Charisma/ Amulet of Health/ Gloves of Dexterity.

Like the build says, this type of character is more of a support/ battlefield control character than melee or range attack. Depending on how you want to play your monk, there are also some other good ideas in this thread.

 

Heheh, that was my idea Anyhow, it was based upon a previous char I played which was actually a monk/wiz. The thing is, this multiclass has so many choices it boggles the mind.
Some builds can be just plain fun, while others are coldly calculated powerplay munchkins. The best advise I can give you is to save your game when you reach lvl 5 with this character BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY GIVE THE NEW LEVEL and to GUARD IT WITH YOUR LIFE! (sorry for the capslock there, but it will save you many hours of grinding for xp )
This way, you can revert back to your pivotal point when your first build doesn't really suit your playing style.

While the characteristics are not -the- best which you have with this current personage, I wouldn't say it's a total loss as Pygmy claims it to be. And I certainly don't understand why he favours CHA above STR for a Wiz/monk multiclass.

One of the things you will regret is that you took the Combat reflexes instead of Deflect arrows as your 2nd lvl bonus feat, but that will only be a minor annoyance if your Concentration is maxed out.

What you should NOT do, is take the Q-staff focus. Why? because you want -need might be even better- your 4th lvl of Monk, for all the bonusses it gives you.More HP, a +1 to all your saves, a +1 to all your bab's (even for flurry) ... and most importantly, 1D8 Ki-empowered fists. This will be a far better choice as a Q-staff that does less damage & pump more gold into to make things worthwhile. It would be wiser to take an other feat (Dodge, Spell penetration, a school focus, Improved initiative or a Save enhancer), if you still want your Quick draw. But... QD isn't the best feat to take either - but it's nice to play with it though. Nice, but not very powerfull.

What you could do (since lvl 4 is a characteristic enhancing lvl) is take your dex to 15 & then go for 2-weapon fighting feat. That way you can still put a (light) weapon in your off-hand which further on the road can be enchanted to do more kinds of damage in the long run. You could even enter the battlefield with daggers in both hands & trow the main-hand one as a first step & then stand ready with your bare fists for when you need to deal more damage when the melee starts.

What you also might want to consider is the more ranged approach, to go for Point blank & Precise shot, as a mage has access to quite some ranged touch att that will greatly profit from those feats.

The one thing you have to make up your mind is, what function to you want your character to become? An all-round mage with a good self defence? A surprise fighter? A controller? A mage bane? Artillery? And that's not just Feat-wise, your spell selection will also be dependant upon it. If you want to go pyromaniac, Web will be a bit of a wasted spell-book slot, for example.

That's a bit of a problem -but part of the fun- of multiclassing into a mage. The choices are fenomenal

If on the other hand, you will take Pygmy's advice & start all over again with a monk/wiz, I would advise to rather take your first 3 levels of mage before taking in the monk lvls. Why? Because then you can still make a choice if he will be based upon a specialist Wizard, a choice you don't have when you suddenly go from an other class into mage.

Well, I hope this helps

Oh, & 1 point of advice: even if monk/wiz are though cookies for most enemies, Iuz eats those guys (or girls) for breakfeast. Unless you're surrounded by Holy&Good-enchanted-weapons-wielding big boys, evade those quests.

 

All I wanted to do is to make my Monk into a Wiz, that's my initial plan from the very start and that's the reason why she has a very high Int. I kinda figured out that Dex & Wiz are important after reading the Monk AC Bonus on the help menu. Maybe you'll ask me why I chose Str over Dex, it's because I loved using Quarterstaff and it would be a waste using Dex and taking Weapon Finesse.

Yep that's what all I wanted to benefit from those spells (Mage Armor, Shield etc), somewhere here in the forum I read that if you utilize the monk's gears, abilities & feats she'll gain a tremendous amount of AC which IIRC 45-50'ish.

I believe on what you said, but I'm on the verge of experimenting something new. On my next run I'll try your suggestion. Thanks

I don't get what's the purpose of Slow Fall, would you be kind and tell me what the use of it? Yeah that might be nice, an Elf Wiz/Monk. But I don't think I'll be getting Point Blank Shot or any missile related feats. Thanks for the info.

Hmm, I don't think I like this kind of build especially with the Craft Wand feat, but I LIKE those spells it would benefit my Monk greatly. My Monk/Wiz is not my crafter that would be my Cleric/Wiz job.

I want my Monk to be a ready-vs-approach kind of fighter, firing heavy spells from a distance then if someone is approaching KABLAM! taste her fury.

What's with the Cha anyway and what would a Monk benefit from it?

I certainly regret it, but I'm using Quarterstaff which means that I can't use Deflect Arrows cause I'm wielding a two handed weapon. The spell Protection from Arrows and Mirror Image would do the trick, I think. :blank:

Oh no! I love Quarterstaff, if you worry that I might bypass the Ki feats. Well that's the reason why I have the feat Quick Draw.

Edit: The reason why I want to get Quarterstaff is that you can enchant it, imagine that I get the Staff of Fire, Cold, Transmuting, Striking etc. Enchant them with those +3, Holy, Anarchic, Flaming, Freezing, Shocking, Keen etc. Then switching them in battle by using Quick Draw. Can I enchant her hand to those things? No. Although her fist can be Magical by level 5 and Lawful by level 10, but I'll be waiting for far too long before I can multiclass her

Daggers are nice especially if you throw them but I wouldn't be taking 2-Weapon Fighting feats. This is a great info, I'll try it on my next run.

I've already been there several times, a Wiz with all those pesky ranged feats. No offense but I kinda feel lame doing that and that's why I'm experimenting on a different approach. Monk/Wiz.

She's a SURPRISE FIGHTER! If only she could take a Rouge class, sneaky eh? Hehehe. Yep, cast Web with Burning Hands, an instant low level Fireball!

Yeah you're right. I think that's my wrong move, taking the Monk class before Wiz. Don't worry sir my big boys are heavy powered and will protect her from harm.

I'm enjoying all the info's I'm getting, I'll make sure to try them. Thank you all :thumbsup:

 

Just to be clear- the second quote you attribute to me actually came from the NPC monk thread, not me and I've no idea what they replaced Slow Fall with- just looking at my monk in game it seems they just never implemented that ability. Also, my monk has been able to deflect arrows while using a crossbow, which I think would be considered a 2 handed weapon, correct? Again, good luck! :thumbsup:

 

You started your monk like I did ( gotta love cleave :thumbsup: ). At some point pick up two weapon fighting (even imp. twf ). Always use the radial menue's "full attack" option to maximize the number of targets. Also because of limitations in the game. After 10th level I'll add fighter/rogue for extra feats, and sneak attack to the mix.

 

reply

Good info in this thread. I tried a Monk for the first time in 7.8. From reading this thread, I see I made some mistakes. My monk has no weapon feats. He is hand to hand. I would never have thought about taking cleave for the monk. Does cleave work with a monk with hand to hand or we talking about a monk using weapons?

This all reminds me of my longest DnD campaign I play with friends. It was based on the Spider Queen Lolth and her war with Iuz. We all played Drow Elf characters. The Drow House we belonged to had a house wizard who was a 12th level wizard and 10th level monk. The Matron Mom of the house wanted him dead and told us to do it. That damn wizard almost killed us all. A monk that can cast anti magic shell is a scary thing to go up against.

 

According to the description of the feat from the manual it would seem that Cleave would work if the monk were fighting bare handed as the monk's fists are considered weapons. I'll have to look into my saved games and see if I have a monk with Cleave to test it on...

 

Cleaving monks work how they should in ToEE, no worries

 

Thanks Gehennis.

Nyarl,
I see your point.

 

Real monks don't use weapons or multi-class.

OK, maybe just MY monks don't.

A pure monk ends up doing 2d6 damage that is treated like a magical weapon and with improved critical unarmed he crits every other hit.

Not to mention the really good AC and movement.

I'm just saying, if you haven't played a monk before add a pure monk to your party and learn just how awesome they are once they gain a few levels.

 

no he doesn't. the threat range for unarmed strikes is 20/x2, thus, improved critical improves your threat range to 19-20, which makes your chance to score a threat 1 in 10 which is five times lower than "every other hit".

apart from that, monks are the weakest class overall:
m(ultiple)a(ttribute)d(ependent) as hell, they have a medium bab on top which makes them unable to hit anything level appropriate. also, monks don't deal enough damage, since they can't power attack properly with their low attack bonus and their lack of options regarding weapons (improved unarmed strike only gets str bonus to damage, trades bab 1:1 for damage with power attack and can't be enchanted). the best weapon is probably a quarterstaff wielded as a two-handed weapon, which makes you think... their ac and hit points, like their attack bonus, are way too low for a strictly melee class (shurikens? lolwut). their main class features cancel each other out (flurrying requires a full attack, which negates their fast movement), and spring attack isn't the answer either because one hit almost never helps when you can first select it (level 6) and you spent two sucky feats to get it.

that said, you can make a monk who contributes in this game. with the same effort spent, however, every other class will outshine him by miles. this can be an interesting challenge and source for fun too, of course, but i can only advise every new player to not touch this class with a 10' pole.

 

Zugchef- not disputing your argument that Monks are seriously flawed, but (at high levels) the fact that they only have 3/4 BAB is slightly offset by the fact that when flurrying all attacks are at full BAB (for a Monk) rather than 20/15/10/5 etc for a Fighter. This of course doesn't make up for the fact that a fighter can focus all his ability enhancements on strength and wield a two-handed weapon with holy elemental damage while our poor monk is also trying to buy enhancements to dex, wis etc.
FWIW I think Sirchet is right- to get the flavour of a monk you need to run a pretty pure monk. Taking 3 levels then becoming a wizard just puts you 3 levels behind where you could be with spellcasting. Cast mage armor and mirror image rather than putting points in Wisdom etc. In my last game I ran with 3 monks- one 'pure', one with 3 levels of Rogue first for the 2 sneak attack dice, and Ronald who went Clr1 Rgr 2 Monk x. I Also hada pure Rog, so between pairing up to flank and Zaxis casting glitterdust left right and centre I did a lot of damage, but through Rogue levels rather than monk. My pure monk ended up with a holy flaming q staff and +6 belt, so he bashed away fairly effectively, but not as well as the rogue with (in the end) 10 dice of sneak attack with a 16str composite holy bow and semi-permanent imp invis from Zaxis. And not as much as a fighter or barbarian might do either.Still, precise thinking about positioning and how to focus or spread attacks became important, which was more fun than bombarding the area with stinking cloud and fireballs then mopping up the rest with greatswords.