Jerkstop: The TRUE Solution

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Gaear, Nov 28, 2012.

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Do you want to move Hommlet in order to try to get rid of jerkstop?

Poll closed Dec 26, 2012.

  1. Yes

    12 vote(s)
    75.0%

  2. No

    4 vote(s)
    25.0%
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  1. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Okay, time to talk real bottom line stuff about the Hommlet jerkstop problem. Here is the deal.

    There appears to be a true solution available to jerkstop, and that is to put Hommlet on a different map (new map number) and add it as a custom worldmap location (like Welkwood Bog, Hickory Branch, etc.). Why do I think this? Because unbeknownst to most of you, as of version 7.4.0 you have been running around Hommlet during War of the Golden Skull on a different map - a Hommlet doppleganger. And as of 7.4.0, basically no one has reported real jerkstop issues with Hommlet during WotGS. (Recall how terrible it was or could be with prior versions.) Players have reported issues with lag, and some have said they had jerkstop, only to discover that it was not - it was actually lag, or it was jerkstop prior to the WotGS switch, etc. What no one has verifiably reported is the phenomenon where your movement commands are not completed, and/or characters are frozen upon exiting the inn, and/or performance becomes stuttery (not laggy, but jerky) during the WotGS sequence. I'm assuming the reason for this is because you are actually on a different map. And thus my deduction is that putting the real Hommlet on a different map would also result in the disappearance of jerkstop for the real Hommlet.

    The reason I did this with WotGS as of 7.4.0 was to basically run a blind testing regimen wherein players would not expect anything different and thus reports would be 'pure' and unbiased. Thanks for being guinea pigs. ;)

    I was very hopeful that jerkstop would go away with v7.5, since the worldmap was reverted to its original status (more or less), and there were indications of worldmap involvement - jerkstop would go away after traveling on it, etc. That has not proven to be the case however, sadly. And we are slowly running out of contenders for what it could be caused by, basically down now to the area popup boxes and the addition of the persistent data stuff. Trying to remove persistent data at this stage would likely be very problematic, and I have a feeling that doing away with the popup boxes would just result in more of the same. Therefore, it may be best to just have done with it and move Hommlet altogether.

    Pros and cons: the pros are obvious - no more jerkstop. Cons would be that Hommlet would no longer have three worldmap landing locations, only one, and that you'd have to go there via the list on the right. I guess it boils down to whether or not we consider jerkstop to be a showstopper problem that requires fairly drastic measures to overcome or not. Personally I think it is.

    Also note however that's it's possible this will not work either. Maybe having Hommlet on the worldmap at all causes jerkstop; maybe it's something else entirely; maybe jerkstop-free WotGS Hommlet is just a fluke. Whatever the case, this would be the most dramatic measure attempted yet, and I'm getting tired of testing little measures. I would rather just be done with it. ;)

    So please vote in the poll and share your thoughts.
     
    Gaear, Nov 28, 2012
    #1
  2. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    I'm OK with it, it's just for testing, right?

    If this fails to give concrete results will it be moved back?
     
    sirchet, Nov 28, 2012
    #2
  3. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Yes.
     
    Gaear, Nov 28, 2012
    #3
  4. Legless

    Legless Established Member

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    I havely played 7.5nc and the original, and I have never experienced jerkstop, thankfully.
    If it works and everything else is still working in the facsimilie Hommet or Ommlet, (you can't make an Hommlet without breaking eggs) fantastic, well done Gaear.
     
    Legless, Nov 28, 2012
    #4
  5. Daryk

    Daryk Veteran Member

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    Well, that certainly explains why the barrels were gone when I did the WotGS. I think the way you have it now has solved the problem. I rarely had jerkstop before the WotGS, and actually like having Homlett on the world map with the three landing locations. Also, will Hickory Branch and Welkwood Bog get their world map locations back since reverting it didn't work? I much preferred being able to cliok on them.
     
    Daryk, Nov 29, 2012
    #5
  6. General Ghoul

    General Ghoul Established Member

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    I still say the lad and jerkstop have to do with the number of animations happening on that screen. Late in the game the players have several magical cloaks and robes, plus weapons and shields. This added to all of the regular walkers in town; the kids, town guards, and various others, is a lot for the mechanics to handle.

    I found on earlier versions by stopping at Delko first, then taking off the cloaks and robes, and arming with mundane weapons, I had no jerkstop after encountering it in the playthrough. I am still in the beginning stages of the latest version, so I cannot comment of what has changed lately.
     
    General Ghoul, Nov 29, 2012
    #6
  7. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    But aren't folks walking around and such only animated when in your line of sight?
     
    sirchet, Nov 29, 2012
    #7
  8. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    No, we won't be going back to the old (modded) way as far as the worldmap goes. It's unclear what the effects really are, and generally it's best not to fiddle with stuff like that, I've found. Reverting = safe.

    Unfortunately it hasn't solved the problem, as we have still had a few jerkstop reports.

    I don't really want to get into another rehash of all that here, but I'm pretty sure animation problems are symptoms, not causes. And virtually all exterior mobs that we added have been removed from Hommlet since early in v7 I think. Problem's still there. Also, we had all the original mobs walking around Hommlet with no problem before jerkstop showed up.

    I think the worldmap part of that is key, and that's why I was hopeful that reverting it would fix the issues. Basically JS showed up right after a series of mods were added to the cumulative mods and fixes in late 2008. One of those was the worldmap mod. We've tried removing many of those mods now, including the worldmap, all to no effect. Also we know it's not just some modern system issue, as recent playtesters using old versions (like 3.0.4) reported no jerkstop.

    Yes, or rather while in the sector you're in, generally. But I don't think that really has much to do with anything anyway.
     
    Gaear, Nov 29, 2012
    #8
  9. andysks

    andysks Member

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    To be honest i never experienced any really big problem in Hommlet .The only thing i remember was in War of the golden skull I had to take the ranged enemies first and fast because they could cause a freezing of the game when they attacked.I dont know if this is the jerkstop we are talking about(I don't really understand the term :) ).
    In any way this was just a bit annoying cause I had to load and redo the battle until I clear the ranged characters really fast.

    P.S This didnt happen with every ranged enemy.The worst were the ones out of the castle.
     
    andysks, Nov 30, 2012
    #9
  10. Legless

    Legless Established Member

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    It might have something to with the animations, fire, ground thundering as the expolsions occur, and continue after that particular group has been taken down, strangely. I got a wee bit of lag sometimes but nothing unplayable and nothing like jerkstop. Sound issues can have the same sort of effect in my experience. A standard build into motherboard soundcard which has not been updated with the lastest drivers can cause havoc to a game.
     
    Legless, Dec 1, 2012
    #10
  11. Goshi3156

    Goshi3156 Dire Badger

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    I mostly get lag rather than jerkstop in Hommlet, and it only really happens during WotGS. I never really used the World Map landing positions. I always used the list to get anywhere on the map so I'm all for moving it.
     
    Goshi3156, Dec 1, 2012
    #11
  12. andysks

    andysks Member

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    Legless you might be right there.Because I remember there was a problem as well when i tried fireball on big groups.Game just froze.
     
    andysks, Dec 1, 2012
    #12
  13. dale5351

    dale5351 Established Member

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    When playing 7.4.1, during the WotGG I experienced a lot of CTD while using horrid wilting, or sometimes just afterwards when shooting a bearded devil. I don't recall problem with fireball though. Whatever was wrong may well have been showing up differently on different installations/computers/operating systems.
     
    dale5351, Dec 2, 2012
    #13
  14. GuardianAngel82

    GuardianAngel82 Senior Member

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    I wonder if that will be effective. It seems the CAUSE of jerkstop wasn't that Homlett was moved. Do we know the root mechanism of the phenomena yet?

    I think it should be tried, at least.
     
    GuardianAngel82, Dec 4, 2012
    #14
  15. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    It's a shame we can't monitor the separate processes, or functions of the game and see which one is actually hanging or is in an endless loop.

    I believe all we can do is monitor the overall use of system resources, which means the process of elimination is the only route that can be taken.

    As Gaear has so patiently expressed time and again.
     
    sirchet, Dec 4, 2012
    #15
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