Builds

I'm interested in powerful and/or interesting builds for playing through the NC module with the level cap removed. So far what I've tried has been sub-optimal (either the choice of classes, or they way I built them):

[1] Pure classes: elf-rogue, dwarf-cleric, halforc-fighter, human-wizard
[2] ditto: elf-rogue, dwarf-cleric, human-paladin, human-wizard

(The paladin was not a good replacement for the pure fighter...)

I tried to follow some advice on the forums:

Rogue: socially skilled observant and sneaky locksmith. Used a longbow and could eventually hit something (all bow feats). All points went into dex. Should I have gone the spiked chain route?

Cleric: good and law domains, crafted holy-axiomatic weapons for everyone but wizard. Decent second tank when buffed. Decent summoner. All points went into wis which was
probably a mistake (str would have helped more)

Fighter: glaive focus, maybe I should have gone the whirlwind route as feat choices became random, all points in str.

Wizard: relied for crafting belts etc. Took a lot of meta-magic feats and some are useful. I was a bit unclear on what to do after a while. All points in int.

The cleric really lacked cleave which made me think a few levels of fighter would have helped. The rogue might have done better in melee where more feats help, and/or switching classes after some point. My commitment to primary stats seems misguided. The wizard couldn't hit much with the xbow, but that's probably expected - I could have put more points into dex or con I suppose.

My recent debacle was attempting to make a half-orc with fighter and cleric levels (doh!).

What class mix-ins do people find useful?

Does anyone know of a build-calculator for ToEE? Any interest in one?

Are there good ways to use the game as a trainer (i.e. console in exp, build char, teleport to area).

I usually need to be lead by the nose through the build process, and I like optimal builds which is why I ask all these questions.

Thanks!

-Fred

 

If you want to compliment someone who thinks he's smart ... ask him a question.

As for optimal builds I pretty much suck at that because I let my game play dictate the way my character develops.

My neutral good rouge has no need to learn pick pocket and such.

I do prefer the straight or pure class characters due to the advantages gained at later levels.

When a rouge gains level 10 and sneak attacks can drop the opponent's strength by 2 each hit it can be pretty sweet to watch a Balor miss because he has lost his strength bonus to hit.

I always say, play the game and have fun, if your character is headed down a certain path and you're enjoying it then give him more skills feats to compliment that path.

I look at TOEE not as a race or competition as to who can beat it best, but a great way to spend an afternoon living out an adventure that can't happen in the real world.

This is the part where I stop talking.

 

First of all, let me correct Sirchet. It's not in my nature to play the grammar-nazi, but seeing this mistake that he keeps making...:twitch:

Rouge = french lipstick
Rogue = a sneak-attacking, witty and stealthy killingmachine

Now that this is of my chest, let's continue :nerd:

While some classes benefit from staying on their path (Sorcerors especially), I find multiclassing quite beneficial.
Here's a list of classes followed with good classcombo's:


1)Barbarian:
works well with a lvl of rogue for extra sneakatt damage while flanking
and/or
works well with some lvls of ranger if you want to let him dual wield. The preffered enemy is a nice addition too.
a spellcaster class is pretty useless, it will hurt your HP and you can't use spells while raging

2) Bard
works well with a lvl of rogue -yes, the sneak att- plus you get enough skill points so you can still upgrade your perform skill
and/or
works well with some lvls of ranger. It will upgrade your battle prowess without loosing too much skillpoints

3) Cleric
A few levels of fighter never did hurt a cleric, as they both are allowed to go in heavy armour
and/or
At least a lvl of rogue for the more devious kind of cleric. Like those discipels of Nerull Though this might be more of a nice rpg element, but it's kind of nice to see a priest of death dealing sneak attacks with his Scythe

4) Druid
A few lvls of fighter will make your druid go much longer on the battlefield. Those extra feats also make for a nice addition.

5) ... I'll edit this post later on, I'm too tired for the moment, sorry...

 

And it's sirchet! ... not Sirchet. oke:

I still think we should call this class a THIEF!



ps ... just poke'n fun at ya.

 

When I build my six character parties, I start five of them with fighter, ranger or barbarian. The rogue gets her first fighter level at second. By 20th level, they shake out as:
Elf Rogue 10/Fighter 10 (five sneak attacks with a composite bow FTW, six with haste)
Elf Ranger 10/Fighter 10 (two of these, bow feats all the way, ending up with a total to-hit of around +36)
Half-orc Barbarian 4/Fighter 16 (I can never remember to Rage, but Uncanny Dodge always works; dual cleavers can do more damage to opponents that can be hit than Scather)
Elf Wizard 8/Fighter 12 (just enough to craft Frost and Shock; I rarely cast in combat)
Human Cleric 12/Fighter 8 (Enough to get Greater Weapon Focus while being able to cast Heal and craft a Burst weapon if I choose)

The archers break down with: +20 BAB, +10 for DEX (which includes +6 gloves), +1 Weapon Focus, +1 Greater Weapon Focus, +3 weapon, +1 for Greater Bracers of Archery (crafted)

My last play through, I forgot to go back and add Axiomatic to the bows. The lack thereof didn't seem to slow me down much, though I will say I still haven't figured out how to beat four Iuz avatars. One isn't too bad as long as I wait long enough (i.e. hit him at about 13th level).

 

Some very nice points! I did answer one of my own: there are several online D&D 3.5(e) character generator utilities. I'm still looking at these so I can plan out feats etc.

@nyarlathotep: it's good to see "the other white meat" brought into the fray. I haven't yet tried bard/barb/druid/monk.

@Daryk: Hmm.. I'll have to think about whether or not I need those 20 levels of Cleric and Rogue. 10 levels of fighter would make them both a lot more useful... I only need the rogue levels for a few specific things.

It would be neat to have a build discussion sub-forum here with specific level-by-level builds and comparison of the various strengths (RP, novelty, raw power). While I imagine a lot of this is covered in standard D&D 3.5 forums, ToEE pairs down the feats to a specific subset and the game content defines the range of things that are fun and interesting build-wise.

 

Fighter-Clerics work well.
Start with Cleric, then Fighter to 2, then Cleric to 3, then Fighter to 4, then Cleric all the way up from there.

Rogue-Wizard works well too, Usually Elf. Rogue 2/Wizard N, or even 4 level of rogue.



I like to take one Rogue-Wizard and one pure Sorcerer, then 3 melee focused chars.

 

My two cents.

Strength Rogues make insanely powerful combatants on higher levels against anything not protected against critical hits.

I used a RogueX/Fighter1 as a main character, and with just a keen scimitar and Greater Invisibility he would wreak havoc on everyone.

Dexterity fighter with bow can reliably kill one dangerous opponent per round after level 10.

Wizards who specialize in enchantment can do pretty sick stuff with mass hold and hold spells, giving free coup de grace to your party members.

 

I haven't tried a STR rogue, but I'd like to. 1lvl fighter is a great idea.

For the wizard, do specialize via feats, or pick the school enchantment and some opposing school?

Nice idea for a party there. Very different than anything I've tried.

 

Depending on party design/composition i would recommend :
1 bard(short composite bowman works nicely as a support char) if most of yr party is made of melee/archery chars its songs can serve as either an overall party to hit&dmg booster or party wide spell spell resistance effect against one a bunch of rlly wicked spells; and fascinate ability pretty much guarantees that a properly developed bard can temporarily take out of combat just about any unit (like say lareth chilling while its entire garisson gets wiped out or a big nasty giant sits on hes arse allowing you to butcher its companions at yr leisure) plus its an excellent party face.
1 cleric(best healer&party boost spell caster plus a decent crafter) or druid(decent healer(especially since reincarnate comes rly early) &above aveg crafter(access to most elemental dmg types) plus a decent offensive spellcasting &sumoning ability..... - long story short don't bother having a party with no clerik/druid unless u are hardcore/masochist player
Depending on current play experience i would recommend:
If u find the game to hard : at least 1 sork/wiz is mandatory;craft !!!!; abuse spells; use npc as meat shields;
If u find the game to easy: apply some/all of my equalizer' rules(point buy chars,no sorc/wiz or druid in party,no nc content until u finish original, no loads unless yr entire party dies/game crashes; and if u really want more : no crafting at all only rely on what crafted items/armors/wpns the game gives you)
As far as best possible chars i would mention: anything melee capable with rogue lvls on him;a pure wiz(early access to strong spels overkills by extreme specialisation /sorc overkills by sheer number of spells to cast) and naturally the cleric&druid theyr party heal&boost(u may like to not bother leveling them much after they reach reincarnate/resurect and just focus on multiclassing them to smth mele/archery based class) and crafting
My fav chars :
For melee fig 4/rogue x(heavy armored beast 2x handed weapon wielder) ; barb 2/rogue x(medium/lite armored,highly mobile precision striker&skirmisher); ranger 2(or 6)/rogue x (finesse dual wielder ,the craft cost of his twin weapons often rivals the entire parties crafted items :twitch: )
For ranged atack ranger x/fig x - composite lbow crafted to the sky :yes:
Crafter:best would probably be some druid/clerik with holy but i seem to have developed a nasty affinity towards obad-hai cleric(best combo for my tipycal low magic parties) with water&plant domains(the amount of crafting options derived from here is really sick ,plus the offensive spellcasting abilities of the cleric can reach obscene levels)

 

I've always been fond of Monk/Rogue. The number hits you can do with two weapons and Flurry of Blows is amazing which can make Sneak Attacks devastating on almost any enemy. They can also make good anti-mage units. Just run past enemies tumbling pass or avoiding AoOs and trip that mage over. Since their AC is so high (Monk level and wisdom bonus) only magic will be able to reliably touch her (Until you get Diamond Soul =3).

Bow Rogues typically go together with a caster or magical items that can give them invisibility and/or blind enemies. If you have neither of those, yeah I would use a melee Rogue instead. Or maybe even a Bard with a bow.

Clerics get some really great attack spells at higher levels. I find its better for them to cast spells rather than engage in melee. Plus there's nothing stopping them from casting spells and tanking hits at the same time (Except maybe Concentration checks at low levels) >_>

 

Wow, I'm really glad I started this thread. I know some of this has been covered before. It would be great (for me at least) to make character sheets with leveling guide for some of these, simply because I get lost in the feat/skill/attribute requirements/goals.

I did see some good 3.5 D&D character builders, but they don't generally create a level-by-level view which I find helpful.

 

I never really plan out my skills and feats too well so I can't really give you a precise level guide. Truthfully when it comes to pick skills or feats I'm more like "Uhhh... this looks a good feat. Sounds good. I'll take it! A+++! Sold! Yeah!" :drunk:

For Monk/Rogue, I usually try to grab the Two-Weapon feats and Improved Trip. The former needs 13 DEX whereas the latter needs 13 INT and the toon must know the Combat Expertise feat.

 

For Archers, the general feat path is:
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot (possibly gained from Ranger 2)
Weapon Focus
Weapon Specialization (at Fighter 4)
Many shot (useful if you have to move at some point, also possibly gained from Ranger 6)
Greater Weapon Focus (at Fighter 8)
Quickdraw (for when you get ambushed)
Far Shot (useful in the Fire Node)
Improved Initiative

 

Why wait so long for improved initiative? My archer usually takes it at first level. Along with weapon focus longbow to get the free longbow at start up.