So much H8 for Scather! (perhaps a minor spoiler or two)

So I'm fighting against the Balor guardian using Liv's mod (and suped up Balor encounter)... a ridiculously hard fight.

After a couple of party wipe outs it's looking like I'm going to win. The Efreet's are dead... the Hezrou are dead. Only one of my guys are dead and only one is sickened. The fear spell cast by the Balor has just started wearing off and the due to healing spells, healing wands and healing potions my 4 remaining PCs are in pretty good shape.

The Balor has sustained a fair amount of injury and I'm feeling good about things finally. My cleric throws on a righteous might and runs in with Scather to put on the hurt.

And then the Scather bug gets me... you know, the bug where someone using scather gets hit, scather takes an attack of opportunity and then scather's wielder gets stuck in combat with 0 actions remaining. I had to alt tab out and end task on the game.

Grrrrrr! I want to break that damn sword about now!

Just needed to vent... thanks for your time.

 

You can't use Fragarach/Scather in the firetemple or firenode. Last I heard it was a hardcoded, non-fixable bug. How did your cleric get to use Scather? Clerics are prohibited from using edged weapons.

 

While this is true in second edition AD&D... this hasn't ever been the case in 3.0 or 3.5.

My cleric grabbed the exotic weapon proficiency: bastard sword feat at level 3, and has been using bastard swords ever since.

 

My 1st edition mentallity is showing again. I have never seen or used 3.0/3.5 so I had no clue on this. Why not give Scather to the highest AC/HP fighter? Can the cleric still cast spells with the sword in their hand?

 

It was also true in the first edition of AD&D and the original D&D rules, as well. It was a play balancing device, the same as the limited Constitution hit point bonus for non-fighters was.

 

hey Marceror in Liv's next mod scather will be different. i changed it some taking away its AOO bonus. its not as powerful now but it also wont bug out in the game. at least it hasnt in any of my test runs.

 

That's great to hear (or read, actually)!! The unlimited AoO thing always seemed to silly to me anyhow... the sword could definitely use a nerf... and if it fixes this horrible bug in the process all the better.

I'll be looking forward to giving this a test run .


Edit: by the way... two more runs later the Balor summoned a bunch of wimpy Quasits instead of the 1-3 Hezrou I'd been dealing with in the past. I made it through without a single death that time. That Hezrou stench is rough!

 

I hate the Scather bug too. One way to avoid it, though, is to NOT give it to a chaotic-good character, but a neutral good character. This eliminates the free Attack-of-Opportunity feature that chaotic-good characters get, but all the other stuff works. At least, that's how it works for me.

 

Ok this may be a stupid question, showing up my 1st edition mentality, but i have issues with these demons.
A Vrock is a Type 1 demon, relativly weak, more of the vulture of the demon world.
A hezrou is a type 2 demon, also relativly weak
Glabezru is a type 3 demon, getting stronger but not a major.
Type 4 demons is where they start to get stronger. Some type 4's have names (nalfeshnee etc)
Type 5's are named demons, very strong and challenging (Marillith etc)
Type 6 demons. only 6 were supposed to exist. Balor was the name of 1 of the strongest, i used balrog as the name of the other max sized type 6. What made these demons most feared was the high chance of gating in other demons.
Then there were the demon lords, Yeenoghu, orcus, demogorgon, juiblex etc
So why the hell in this game is hezrou the hardest demon to kill 400 odd hit points!!!! and a 30 odd AC!!!
And why make them harder? does this correspond with a change to demon layout in 3rd + editions?

 

I don't have a monster manual in front of me, but in 3.0 and 3.5 D&D, Hezrou certainly aren't slouches. I think they are something like CR10 creatures, and their stench ability is pretty nasty (CR24 Fort save required when coming within a few feet of them or be sickened). Like all Tanar'ri, they have certain elemental immunities and Damage Reduction. They can also teleport at will and summon other Tanar'ri demons to aid them. I don't remember how many hit points they typically have... 400 sounds pretty high... but maybe if one rolls hitpoints really well this isn't out of the question. Hezrou (like pretty much all demons) can be advanced as well... so the garden variety displayed in the monster manual are really what a typical hezrou look like... there are tougher ones out there that have gained additional hit dice and abilities.

IIRC, Vrock are slightly more powerful than Hezrou (CR12ish).

Glabrezu are more powerful yet, and Nalfeshnee more powerful still. Mariliths (CR17ish) and Balors (CR20ish) are to be feared by even the highest level parties. And none of the demons listed here are unique... there many many balors roaming the Abyss.

I guess the idea here is that pretty much all Demons in 3.5 D&D are tough... and not likely to be fought alone. Even some of the lower level varieties like baubau can cause a real problem for an adventuring party.

 

regarding the hezrou: last time I went into the nodes, I noticed, afterwards, the hezrou was listed as a cr 28!

I remember reading in a review of toee somewhere on the internet that the hezrou was actually Guardianhezrou, a very powerful hezrou of that name (as opposed to a generic hezrou serving the function of guarding . . .). Does anyone know if this is so?

 

um... i never had the scather bug... but i get a character stuck in combat with 0 actions left all the time... and then I hit "enter' to skip their turn...

Sure it sucks to miss the turn, but USUALLY they really used it up.

I am wondering if its another 0 actions bug, or did you just never try to hit enter.

PS. hit the big one, not the one on your key pad, the key pad one does nothing.

 

Why not try giving Fragarch/Scather to a weak character, instead of a strong one ?

I find that a good option is to give the bastard sword ability to a character with weak combat ability, such as a wizard/sorceror, then, presuming the alignment is compatible, when I get Fragarach/Scather, give the sword to that weak hitter, as it seems to cancel out their hitting weakness, making them worthwhile hitters in the party in a tight situation, instead of just standing back all the time while the regular fighter types do all the fighting.

This is just an idea. Others might disagree and think that the sword should always go to a fighter type. Its all a matter of personal preference, I guess.

 

I definitely hit enter and the space bar and about 20 other keys. This is a documented bug I encountered, not one of those pesky ID-10T errors. This bug is related to the unlimited AOO granted to Chaotic Good Wielders of Scather when they are attacked by a fire 'imbued' creature (like a salamander or balor), they attack back as an AOO, take damage when they hit, and something about that damage makes things go 'screwy' (technical term). The character gets stuck with 0 actions but there is no way to end their turn.

I'm sure others can explain it much better than I can, but that is more or less what happens.

 

oh well... it was worth mentioning ...


btw, scather is a BASTARD SWORD? i thought it was a greatsword... I always give the bastard sword ability to my fighters anyway because it is the best single handed weapon. (well, its equal to the katana... identical in stats actually, but more common to find... I just buy a masterwork one and magic the hell out of it)