please tell me how to enable Humble NPC's in TOEEFE?

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by ProphetPX, Mar 21, 2011.

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  1. ProphetPX

    ProphetPX Node Ravager

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    hi, this might seem like a totally dumb question but in PREVIOUS editions of the co8 modpack (at least 5.x) I was able to stop the NPCs from looting or AT LEAST to enable them to trade/drop/sell their items whenever I wanted. Back then I played the game for a long time and then uninstalled it to do other things ... thinking to go back to it.

    Well now I am back to it and this time I reinstalled everything all over again from scratch (did not restore any of my save games) and am starting fresh with the new mod pack 6.0 NC (instead of 5.x from last time)

    I now have the fully patched (1 and 2) TOEE installed, co8 modpack 6.x NC (which also has it's latest patch as of a few weeks ago) and of course I am using the latest TFE-X launcher with everything done properly and activated correctly (it took forever but i waited :)

    I am again having the problem where NPCs refuse to trade/drop/sell items in their inventory. Also I cannot see their stats and that bugs me.

    I at least want to fix the NPC inventory problem but if there is a fix for being able to see their stats and choose how they level / change their spells, etc.... that would be nice, too?

    the only NPCs I have in my new / current game right now are Furnok (which still shows up as "Inn Guest" at times! geesh), and Zert.

    I had the NPC inventory problem fixed (somehow - i forgot how since then!) when i was playing under co8 modpack 5.x - what do i do for 6.x please?

    again thank you all (especially ShiningTed for putting up with me in the past :) for any help whenever possible... I love the new modpack and i have noticed a few new things but i just barely started playing again so we will see.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2011
    ProphetPX, Mar 21, 2011
    #1
  2. acemcjack

    acemcjack Member

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    Re: Circle of Eight Modpack 6.0.x / 6.0.x NC Bug Report Thread

    It's changed somewhat so as not to allow players to take advantage of the NPCs and take away their gear. You now have to talk to each NPC about his gear, and then he might consider selling you his stuff. He needs to adventure with you for a while and get to know you so he trusts you enough.

    Anyway, as I said - talk to them.
     
    acemcjack, Mar 21, 2011
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  3. ProphetPX

    ProphetPX Node Ravager

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    I am running co8 6.x NC - please tell me how to enable Humble NPC's in TOEEFE? the option for it is greyed out - what am i missing? please help!?
     
    ProphetPX, Apr 5, 2011
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  4. ProphetPX

    ProphetPX Node Ravager

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    Re: Circle of Eight Modpack 6.0.x / 6.0.x NC Bug Report Thread

    wow! Hmmmm well whose "bright idea" was THAT?! I should be allowed to override that if i wish - I want the freedom to change that back to the way it worked in older versions of mods for the game - how would I undo that minor change in 6.0 NC? Honestly I think that was one of the dopiest moves ever made in the mod process! Sure it's great for people who just want to play it straight but that is not something I choose to do.

    Any ideas on how to undo, override, or circumvent that behavior? (I mean: other than having to "talk to them" ... ugggh!!)


     
    ProphetPX, Apr 5, 2011
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  5. florian1

    florian1 Established Member

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    Re: Help with Humble NPC's?

    Humble NPCs runs automatically with 6.x. They don't loot (even if their dialogue says they will when you initially negotiate with them), and you can usually buy their gear from them after they have been with you for a while - useful if you want to give them better gear, and not have them become over burdened. You can talk to them and ask about it. They won't just let you take their most important gear, although many of them allow you to take some of their items.
     
    florian1, Apr 5, 2011
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  6. Gavial

    Gavial Member

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    Re: Help with Humble NPC's?

    So this means that Fruella will not grab her share? If that is true then what is the drawback to including her in the party?
    If it is like this then I would ask how to turn off Humble NPCs. I do not mind them grabbing their share.
     
    Gavial, Apr 6, 2011
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  7. florian1

    florian1 Established Member

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    Re: Help with Humble NPC's?

    I'm not sure if you can turn it off, I think you're stuck with it. On the other hand, you can just give them what you think is a fair share......
     
    florian1, Apr 6, 2011
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  8. General Ghoul

    General Ghoul Established Member

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    Re: Help with Humble NPC's?

    Have you ever played vanilla without humble NPC's? Their inventories fill up and you can't take anything, so they get encumbered and slow, if you find a great magic weapon, they can't take it, and they take stuff that you can use, and never use it themselves.
     
    General Ghoul, Apr 6, 2011
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  9. Gavial

    Gavial Member

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    Re: Help with Humble NPC's?

    The problem is of course that I am too greedy to actually give them stuff, so this mechanism forced me to "roleplay" a bit, since I could not get everything in the game.

    Yes I have, but it was quite a long time ago and I did not remember the encumbrance part and simply did not notice yet that the NPCs did not loot since I have so far only used Elmo, and he only takes money.
    The encumbrance problem is to big of a nuisance I guess so I will simply leave humble NPCs on.

    Would it be incredibly hard to automatically let NPCs take money from your inventory that roughly equals the sum of the loot? The problem I can see is that you run out of money if they charge more than you can sell it for.
     
    Gavial, Apr 6, 2011
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  10. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    NPCs still loot money.

    Humble NPCs (the modified version where they hang onto stuff they would actually want to keep while letting you manage all the other stuff, and eventually may sell you their good stuff) is in override mode because the modified version is no longer a yes/no matter. They act one way some of the time with some gear while acting other ways other times with other gear. There is no on/off switch for a scripted mechanism like that. It would fail somehwere along the line if you were allowed to enable or disable it.

    The current state of Humble NPCs is closest to what Troika intended with vanilla (NPCs with some level of autonomy) without fundamentally breaking the game like in vanilla (NPCs who overburden themselves et al).

    We think that it really is a very nice compromise ...

    • NPCs who take everything/anything and don't let you touch any of it: fail
    • NPCs who let you take away their most prized posessions without objection: fail
    • NPCs who guard their most prized possessions and let you handle the rest: win
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2011
    Gaear, Apr 6, 2011
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  11. cezmail

    cezmail Gorboth's Rider

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    Well said Gaear. I myself do not use NPC's very much but I appreciate the work you and other mods did to implement this.
     
    cezmail, Apr 7, 2011
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  12. ProphetPX

    ProphetPX Node Ravager

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    well here is my main problem ok:

    It is not just the encumbrance issue that I feel will always be a problem.

    Say for example a PC or NPC character (like Furnok) acquires a ring of Greater Invisibility when looting. If no other PC would want the item (if I choose not to give it to any of my PCs) then I could give the ring to him and sell what he has on. But the AI or the 6.0NC version of "bumble NPCs" (misspelled ON PURPOSE) will not let me DO that, now will it? Because they would rather not part with their "most prized possessions" EVEN IF they are about to get something that is far better to replace it! NOW FOR THAT I want override because THIS IS MY GAME and while the computer may be DM, I am still the one bossing the NPCs around and I say I should have full control over MY game. I want to be the one to arbitrate who gets what items and who gets to use and keep what, so I can optimize assault power between all characters and not just the ones I created myself to pull into the game. I do not want NPCs to have their own mind when it is ME that is directing all the action anyway!

    In my opinion, allowing ANY NPC to take whatever they want is NOT RIGHT. Not only in computer games but also in table top ordinary D&D (while I have never yet been a DM for 3.5 or other systems, I have never liked the idea of allowing NPCs to just do whatever the hell they want while it could jeopardize the party and ruin COHESIVENESS as a whole. By not taking the Greater Invisibility ring and keeping the inferior (lesser) Invisibility ring, the NPC is basically NOT playing as PART OF A TEAM EFFORT. When NPCs are allowed to do whatever they want and to not arbitrate succesfully for FULL intermediation of all possessions then it really RUINS the full gaming experience for the player ... IN MY OPINION.

    I still want to override "Humble NPCs" OR AT LEAST be able to revert to the old 5.x way of how it worked. If anyone could offer a non-official script hack or the like, I would appreciate it.

    I do not mind if the Co8 people make no changes to this, because of the ultra fine work they have already done in making all the mod packs thus far. I just want to be able to customize MY game and revert Humble NPC's back to the way it was! FULL (human) PLAYER ARBITRATION!

    Thank you.


     
    ProphetPX, Apr 7, 2011
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  13. Gavial

    Gavial Member

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    @Gaear
    Oh, I apologize for not reading up on how the ModPack NC works. If they loot money and have some level of guarding then I am happy with this. Keep up the great work.
     
    Gavial, Apr 7, 2011
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  14. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    @ProphetPX, it sounds like your main issue is that you don't want to accept any degree of autonomy on the part of NPCs. Aside from being unrealistic from a RP perspective, it's also not what Troika intended with ToEE. Co8's primary modding imperitive, more or less, has been to remain true to Troika's design as much as possible. The current version of Humble NPCs does this better than anything we've had before. It's not going to change, and for the reasons I mentioned above, it's not going to revert to being optional.

    To address your Furnok example, I don't see his ring as being a big issue. It's a ring. If you want him to wear a different ring, give him one and equip it. If you can't bear the notion that you can't sell his existing ring, well ... I don't think I can help you overcome that issue.

    Many other NPCs will eventually let go of their A list items. You just have to adventure with them for a while. And those that don't really never should: Thrommel, for example, would not give up Fragarach under any circumstances.

    I do undestand that you're appealing not to the sensibleness or lack thereof of NPCs hanging onto their equipment, but rather simply stating that you want to control it all regardless. We can't help you with that, unfortunately. I'd suggest you either learn to mod it yourself so that you can change it in your game, or stick with an older version of the mod that had the original version of Humble NPCs.

    p.s. - There is no need to YELL with capital letters. It's generally considered poor 'netiquette' and it's not likely to make me any more sympathetic to your case.
     
    Gaear, Apr 7, 2011
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  15. Shiningted

    Shiningted I changed this damn title, finally! Administrator

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    Really? Thats fantastic Gaear :) Didn't realise that.

    ProphetPX, I've tried to read everything here so forgive me if I missed something, but 2 quick points:

    - you can generally buy stuff off the NPCs when they have been with you long enough to develop the team-player mentality (indicated by leveling up - once they go up a level they sell you their stuff: prior to that, they don't know you well enough). There are a few exceptions like Fragarach and Elmo's dagger which have obvious RP reasons for not being sold: Furnok's ring may fall into that category, but a script to check whether he has a ring of Great Invisibility would make (nitpicking) sense. There are also NPC exceptions: Meleny, Serena etc will immediately let you do as you want with them (well, with their gear).

    - the problems you are having can all be overcome by not using NPCs. An 8-PC party is totally under your control - NPCs have their own agendas. Thats the whole point of NPCs :shrug:
     
    Shiningted, Apr 9, 2011
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